Testosterone Replacement for Older Men

#101

Yh it is inconsistent with the rest of the data. My unqualified opinion is that for a male who is in excellent health there probably is a very little if any appreciable decline in testosterone but aging walks hand in hand with poorer health for 99% of the population so we will see a decline.

They exclude people with endocrine disorders, people with chronic illness, and people on HRT so it is not too surprising that their results differ slightly from those taken from the population at large. It would be interesting to dig further into the data and see what nationalities the study participants were.

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#102

Why not juste use an AI like exemestane everyday to improve testosterone level? I’ve just read some study in with daily taking 25mg of exemestane increase testosterone level and free testosterone by a lot, and do not crashes oestradil level.

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#103

Seems pretty risky. I wouldn’t mess with estrogen without a sensitive estradiol test first. I’ve had crashed estradiol twice, and it feels like death. Before I started TRT was one of those times because my testosterone was so low there wasn’t much to aromatize. I can’t imagine what would have happened if I had added an AI on top of that.

There’s a lot of discussion on this site and some in this thread about the longevity benefits of estrogen. The subjective benefits are great also, as long as it doesn’t go too high. IMHO, there are better options.

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#104

I also can’t think of a single hormone where a LOW level is healthy. Nobody feels better with low testosterone, low thyroid, low estradiol, low dhea, low IGF1, low pregnenolone, etc.

A super low level in any of those promotes worse outcomes.

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#105

DHT can be kept at relatively low levels in most tissues and it’s still unkown whether or not low IGF1 levels are beneficial for health- and lifespan. Other than that, I agree.

#106

I haven’t looked into low DHT so I won’t comment on that but low IGF1 is linked to higher risk of cardiovascular disease
New insights on the cardiovascular effects of IGF-1 - PMC (nih.gov)
IGF-1 and Cardiovascular Disease - PMC (nih.gov)
Low serum IGF1 is associated with hypertension and predicts early cardiovascular events in women with rheumatoid arthritis | BMC Medicine | Full Text (biomedcentral.com)

Also diabetes, osteoporosis, and sarcopenia
Association between IGF‐1 levels ranges and all‐cause mortality: A meta‐analysis - PMC (nih.gov).)

Both too low and too high IGF1 linked with all cause mortality
IGF-1 and Risk of Morbidity and Mortality From Cancer, Cardiovascular Diseases, and All Causes in EPIC-Heidelberg | The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism | Oxford Academic (oup.com)

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#107

How does this contextually have anything with what we are talking about in this thread?

The discussions are in no way about getting to high levels, but back to moderate levels.

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#109

Very interesting. Do you have a study handy?

#111

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Estrogen-and-androgen-plasma-levels-after-10-d-of-daily-exemestane-25-or-50-mg-in_fig1_8963583

I find it interesting
Currently using 12.5mg a day, my oestradiol level went from 32pg/mL to 23pg/mL. Gyno still there but no longer hurts. I’m gonna increase to dosage to 25mg daily.

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#112

Yes, I am writing this from a high-security prison. Very perceptive of you. But the way you and others here have reacted so defensively to a casual observation suggests that I must have touched a nerve. It is a fact that high testosterone is associated with irritability and aggressiveness, which can lead to violence. Not always and in everyone, but often enough to be the concern of numerous research papers. This should be obvious to all but the oblivious.

@SNK I read your pathetic post before you deleted it. No, I am not gay. The accusation says more about you than it does about me.

#113

This is only a weak observational study from a population that is already prone to low impulse control and violence.

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#115

It is one study out of hundreds. Your virility is making you myopic.

#117

@SNK …normal,you aren’t…and I know you think it’s a cute trick to post something and then delete it…but as I’m sure you know, people can still see it by clicking the red pencil at the top. I’m sorry I did that because that post was certainly obnoxious enough to get you banned again.
@Tim both of those posts (@SNK and @Alex ) were below the standard of behavior considered acceptable on this site and @RapAdmin will eventually see this.

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#119

causation-correlation-meme-v0-6jlrcgr3yy0c1.png
causation-correlation-meme-v0-6jlrcgr3yy0c1.png861×860 124 KB

Not that I necessarily disagree with the theory that higher testosterone levels are problematic. There is a great book I’ve read by Robert Sapolsky, a Stanford neuro-endocrinologist, I recommend people check out:

20668

https://www.amazon.com/Trouble-Testosterone-Essays-Biology-Predicament/dp/0684838915

nm0897-926.pdf (1.5 MB)

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#120

You say something that is not sensible and have been told why that is so repeatedly.

And it is contextually absolutely nothing to do with this discussion, so it is implicitly insulting to assume we are trying to “max out.” But I guess you did not get that you are being offensive, right?

I had no idea where you are, and it was not the point of the post in any case.

Your comparisons to criminals are not at all reasonable for obvious reasons. But if you want, please feel that you have figured us all out and feel good about it…I guess?

#121

Exactly. And why are we even talking about this in the first place?

#122

Time to block you. So annoying.

#123

Been on my no needles Testosterone boosting stack for over 3 months now, I described it above in another post… I mentioned I would get back to you on the results, and thus far it has been a win. I wanted to boost my T so I felt better, and my muscles feel firmer with more definition, and lose some belly jelly… all without injections of any kind. Here is my 7 day stack, I am 59 y/o male, resistant training almost every day for last 10 years:

Sun – 12.5mg enclomiphene citrate, 5mg pregnenolone, 10mg boron
Mon – Long Jack, Testofen, 5 mg DHEA, 10mg boron
Tue – 50 mg DHEA, 10 mg boron
Wed – repeat Sun
Thu – repeat Mon
Fri – 3mg Rapamycin with GFJ one hour before, 5mg prenenolone, 10mg boron, ashwangandha at night (Rap can make me sleep not so well on the day I take it, so the Ash has helped with that and it is a known Test booster)
Sat – repeat Tue

No blood test, I just based the effectiveness on how it made me feel. Overall I am really pleased with this stack, here is what I “perceived” it did for me:
-increased muscle mass some, made my muscles feel firmer & more full
-more definition, and flex/pump when not working out (tension)
-can’t say it makes me stronger, but it made my strength during workouts more consistent from day to day (I workout most days)
-easier to lose belly fat when I make an effort to lose weight
-increased stamina over the course of the day, just a little but noticeable
-pregnenolone, not sure if this does anything, but Maximus adds it to their EC stack so I thought I would too, not sure if it makes any difference

Enclomiphene citrate – this gives the most noticeable effects, makes me feel really good but it can make me a little “testy” and irritable, so I have to be conscious of that on my EC days Lol Really impressed on how effective the EC has been, makes me feel strong, lots of energy, muscles are full and tight, lots of positive well being. I would take it every other day if I wasn’t concerned of my body not responding to it over time, a negative feedback response. Rap can make me feel “testy/irritable” as well, and make my muscles feel full but without an increase in strength.

Herbal Supplements – Long Jack and Testofen, surprisingly these were the second most effective, not far behind the EC, and without making me feel “testy”.

DHEA – mixed bag, it does have a positive effect but not as noticeable, and thankfully did not have a negative effect on my prostate.

One concern I have with this stack is that my joints have been a little sensitive after a while on this stack. My theory is that my frame is shorter as I have aged, and having stronger muscles on a shorter frame adds more stress to the joints such that I can feel it. Not sure if that is it, but that is all I can attribute the soreness to right now, as I have not changed my workout at all.

So overall I am pleased, not sure how much it is boosting T, 10%, 20%, 30%? I don’t know, all I know is that it makes me feel better. I am going to continue this no needles stack so long as it makes me feel noticeably better. When and if it comes that it is losing effectiveness then I will consider traditional TRT, perhaps with micro dosing.

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#124

RufusDawed, I’m glad it worked for you. I would like to know more about that enclomiphene citrate. Do you mind telling me the brand name, form (capsule, pill, etc.), size of capsule in milligrams and purchase source? Will you keep your regimen as is or drop anything going forward? Thanks.

#125

I buy EC from receptorchem, it was discussed above… comes in a 30ml bottle as a liquid with 12.5mg dosing syringe… I mix the 12.5 mg of EC with 2oz or so of room temp coffee to mask the taste, works for me.

Supplier is British, good vendor, they sell the EC as a source to “researchers”. My order came to the west coast in 2 weeks.

I wouldn’t change the stack, looking for ways to add to it if possible… only thing I might change is take EC 3 days per week, but in no hurry to try that yet.

1 Like