Red Light Destrict, Naked

Studies claiming benefits of red, near-infrared (NIR), and IR light use 20 to 200 mW/cm². A factor of 10, yet those selling rediculously overpriced devices recommend times below 15 min, not 150 or 1.5 min, and because of “biphasic dose response”, i.e. long exposure is detrimental due to cell heating (you don’t say), ROS, and/or NO release (thought that was the whole point?). They measure 6 to 8 inches from the source, proudly lecturing us on the inverse square law, which holds for point sources, like single LEDs, not for the flat panels they sell. And don’t you dare rely on the watts rating of a bulb since that may all just be heat! Never mind that IR is literally … “heat radiation”. BTW, white light has more red and more heat than redish heat radiation. I use heat radiation because it gives much red at relatively little heat. I want a sauna, not an oven.

My sauna has red heat lamps spreading at most 550 W over ~ 4m² about a meter away, that is 14 mW/cm², and I turn by 90 degrees every 15 min or so over an hour. Seems to be too little, too careful?

Feel free to use ChatGPT, our new scientific standard replacing critical thinking, to tell me how recklessly stupid I am because, for example, I do not know the power at exactly 620nm, 630nm, 633nm, 660nm, 670nm, 808nm, 810nm, 830nm, 850nm, 1064nm, … a small selection of advertised most crucial wave lengths for ideal results such as photodissociation of nitric oxide from the copper enzyme cytochrome c oxidase in mitochondria, or penetration in order to reach any mitochondria below the skin in the first place.

BTW, the bulbs are dirt cheap from China, without having been first imported by a reputable non evil entity to change the label and resell, so I will succumb to SARScancer any day now. Before that, anybody having some constructive criticism? (I won’t buy spectrometry devices. Tried methylene blue an hour before, not sure yet if it is placebo, but certainly does not feel bad.)

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Admittedly I’m not entirely sure after reading your post what it is exactly that you are asking. But the amount of exposure mW/cm2, potential ROS induction, etc. has been discussed in some threads.

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The Inverse Square Law is your friend… and does apply to flat panels, which are made up of “points” of radiation. While many points will help in delivering more power over distance than 1 point, there is still loss over distance.

While not flat, even a contiguous light source like the sun loses power over distance. Even the coherent energy from lasers in space lose power over distance, and not just from “dust” interference. Distance is not our friend when comes to benefit OR it is our friend when it comes to harmful types of radiation.

All “radiation” loses power based on the distance, and it can be a significant loss. This is one of my pet peeves when I see people using a red light 2 or 3 feet away from their skin and they hilariously think they are getting a benefit :slight_smile:

It takes power to penetrate skin and it is specific as to how deep a particular wavelength can penetrate at a given power level. Our skin is an excellent filter and barricade, keeping out all the bad chit :slight_smile:

As you mentioned the fundamental of the inverse square law is based on a point source but the real question is, how big can a point be :slight_smile:

Since many red light devices do have a visible spectrum and some with an invisible spectrum one could purchase a meter (optical) or 2 (IR) or 3 (UV) and take some measurements.

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Yes. All light diverges from its source.

You forgot about lasers! :slight_smile:

Not to mention that the numbers they announce are totally over inflated. I did a teardown of a 45W panel here and it was only 0.58mW/cm2 at 27.5".

Lasers too. No matter how parallel as it leaves the source, a laser beam diverges with distance.

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What utter nonsense! It is plain geometry.
d-dimensional sources in D-dim space distribute over a [D - (d+1)] dim hypersurface, whether a five-brane in 10 D string space or a 2d flat panel in 3D space. So the radial distance goes in with the power of 3 - (2+1), which is Zero!