Rapamycin vs HGH as Longevity Therapies

You are right that bones are in a state of renewal. Perhaps quite a bit slower than muscle, but that is part of the way the dynamic works.

2 Likes

Can you share whether you used your own healthcare provider or an independent telemedicine provider?
I know that the price is variable ( which I think is a scam in of itself) depending on who is requesting the test, but can you give us some idea of what we should expect to pay?

Is that 2 days, or have you switched to bi-weekly dosing or something?

1 Like

Used my own doctor, think it was 900dollars something.

2 Likes

i take rapa once every 2 weeks. Following the dose, I fast (aside from grapefruit) and then eat low calorie/ low protein for a total of 2+ days. I also do not lift weights for 2.5 days. Once I restart lifting, I go back to my 48 hour cycle of high protein for 24 post lift and 24 hours of low protein until next lift.

4 Likes

Typically the cost seems to be around $900 or $950.

How Much Does the Galleri Test for Cancer Screening Cost? | Galleri®.

1 Like

I would think twice about HGH for longevity… as it seems to be counterproductive in the long term if you persistently raise GH levels. But I suspect most people are not going to do this (i.e. not do supplemental HGH for decades). Also, if you are a low risk of cancer (i.e. never smoked, lower BMI, no history of diabetes, etc.) then that would probably lower concerns about cancer (if there is a small increased risk, which may or may not be the case).

I haven’t done the research into the benefits much in aging - and with anything you need to look at the cost/benefit analysis. We have a few people on these forums with experience using HGH I think. Perhaps anyone who has tried HGH can comment on the perceived benefits?

The issue of whether you are deficient is an interesting case. I’m not sure what the issues / negatives are that people experience with lower than normal GH / IGF1 levels. Are they something you notice day to day? Wound healing slower? Muscle recovery and growth slower? What do you notice?

@LVareilles have you tried HGH? Any experiences you can share? Anyone else?

1 Like

how do we interpret the ratio? what are the basis for that or research paper?

There are many similar articles.

Having a solid T cell immunity is important to not becoming really unwell with viral infections and also having your body recognize malignancies.

We have done HGH at physiologic levels and our IGF 1 didn’t get stimulated.

3 Likes

The Levine spreadsheet formula considers lower White Blood Cell counts pro longevity. I have been leukopenic for some time with a WBC around 3.8 (E9 per litre). I haven’t managed to work out why this is. I know my CRP is unusually low (below 0.15mg/L). It is not infection related as it does drop even lower when I have had an infection. The lowest I have is 2.32

My N:L ratio is normally about 3.5:1 which looks in the paper to be high although it has been under 2:1.

It strikes me there is something interesting in the issues behind WBC counts and Lymphocyte numbers, but I don’t know what it is.

2 Likes

Yes I’ve used it. I came from the bodybuilding world and had some health scares, which led me to being so interested in health and eventually longevity (which clearly worsen with bodybuilding).

I took it in large doses that are definitely unsafe but also used very low doses.

At the low doses, I notice minor physique changes

Large doses clearly bring side effects like carpal tunnel, high resting heart rate, and bloating.

I’m actually on 1.5IU per day right now. I go on and off of it. I talk to a lot of people who take or have taken it at all kinds of doses.

I admit I might have a little bias here due to my experience with it.

I appreciate your points on the matter. I think this whole topic is still very much up for debate.

I also think the thought of taking it temporarily and then stopping (as you and @Neo both pointed out) makes sense as well, since the subjects in the original TRIIM trial still had benefits after discontinuation.

5 Likes

I just got this email newsletter

“Preliminary Results from TRIIM-XA Confirm and Extend the Main Results of TRIIM

The first phase of the confirmatory TRIIM-X trial, TRIIM-XA, has been completed, and several preliminary results are now in. For example, we were able to confirm significant (<0.01 to <0.001) declines in inflammation as indicated by C-reactive protein (CRP) levels as well as increased freshly-minted T cells (RTEs, p<0.01), and increases in total lymphocyte numbers in treated but not in control volunteers. Furthermore, six epigenetic aging clocks (our original four plus the Skin&Blood Age and the FitAge clocks) all ran in reverse with statistical significance over the course of our observation period, and two volunteers who participated both in TRIIM and in TRIIM-XA ended TRIIM-XA with plasma PhenoAges no greater than they had been, or substantially less than they had been, when they first entered the TRIIM trial about 7-8 years earlier. In addition, new effects have been statistically demonstrated, including fat loss (e.g., a major loss of visceral adipose tissue with p<0.001), gains in lean body mass, increased strength, and highly significant gains in cardiovascular and aerobic fitness that are known to positively correlate with reduced future morbidity and mortality. So far, so good, and we learned some very interesting things in TRIIM-XA that will hopefully make the results of TRIIM-XB, now in progress, even better!“

4 Likes

That is very interesting. Thank you.

My IGF1 is also the same at a dose of 1.5iu before bed as it was at baseline. If I increase, then I see IGF1 start to go up.

To be fair, my IGF1 at baseline is higher than most since the TRT I am on bumps it up

1 Like

Another big misconception is that HGH causes cancer. If this were the case, then we would be seeing bodybuilders getting cancer left and right. We don’t see this at all amongst the bodybuilding community. Heart and kidney disease, yes. Cancer, no.

Growth hormone replacement therapy reduces risk of cancer in adult with growth hormone deficiency: A meta-analysis - PMC (nih.gov)

There seems to be conflicting information in this area.

As I’ve mentioned elsewhere in these forums, there is a genetic condition called Laron syndrome (LS), also known as growth hormone insensitivity or growth hormone receptor deficiency (GHRD). In these people their bodies GH receptors are basically inoperable, so they are unable to take up and use growth hormone that is circulating in their bodies.

The result is that they are tiny (about 4 ft tall on average), but never (or only extremely rarely, even when they are smokers) get cancer and they all live a long time…

Of course, there is a wide range of dosing of growth hormone here, from lifelong GH uptake of near zero in the case of the Laron syndrome people, to normal levels, to super physiological levels for shorter periods of time.

Cancer and diabetes

It has been reported that people with LS in Ecuador are resistant to cancer and diabetes and are somewhat protected against aging.[26][27][28] This is consistent with findings in mice with a defective growth hormone receptor gene.[20] Among the approximately 100 individuals in this population, there were no reported cases of diabetes and one case of cancer.[29]

A 2019 study of individuals with isolated growth hormone deficiency (IGHD type 1B) in Itabaianinha County, Brazil demonstrated a phenotype consistent with Laron syndrome.[30] Researchers found that these humans had similarly extended healthspan, with resistance to cancer and attenuated effects of aging, but neither patients with LS nor IGHD experienced an increase in their overall lifespan.[30]

Also - read this thread: Another (likely) Longevity Drug - Somavert / Pegvisomant

1 Like

I’m going to add a non evidence based response but just from my years being involved in the bodybuilding community and knowing all about PED/HGH use among bodybuilders, cancer is just not something we really see much of, despite high IGF1 levels as a result of supra-physiological doses of HGH. I’m talking about much more than 1-2iu here too. The real concern with there is heart growth and insulin resistance, but not cancer. My theory is that resistance training is one of the most anti-cancer things someone can do so that probably helps offset any kind of cancer risk, if it even exists in the first place.

I get that dwarves don’t get cancer, but I don’t think they are the end all, be all, to the debate. It’s not like they live very long lives.

2 Likes