Ritalin has other effects and there are somewhat individual variable responses to drugs for ADHD.
ADHD involves dopamine, noradrenergic, serotonergic, and cholinergic pathways - in that lens - it’s more explanatory why it can be calming to some. Certain stimulants used in depression/anxiety disorders ie bupropion MOA is inhibiting the reuptake of dopamine and norepinephrine.
Oh, so you actually take 2 mg pills and when you say 12 mg, that’s “net” dose after the multiplier effect of the GFJ which you’ve determined to be 6x for you based on your lab work. I could have sworn, from reading these threads, that you meant you took 6 mg (In pills) + GFJ (so an equivalent dose of 36 mg)
So this is the sweet spot for you? No side effects (aside from the ear ringing and temporarily elevated heart rate which subside within a day)?
You were right in past posts…from April 2022 to end of November 2022…I was doing 6mg to 8mg with GFJ… getting 36mg to 50 mg.
When my Glycan biological age rose… when tested end of November .
I dropped to weekly 2mg and GFJ for 12 mg total. Has been my sweet spot past 2 months. Getting ready to retest with Trudiagnostic in a few days…
No side effects that are longer than a few days…ringing in ears, heart rate up…higher b/p.
Everyone - if you are tracking HRV and RHR (Resting Heart Rate). While people are reporting a reduction in HRV after dosing with rapamycin - can you please report on longer term trends with regard to HRV? Also - if you have taken a break from rapamycin for any reason - do you see any changes in HRV during the time off rapamycin (and how much of a change - does it go back to where it was prior to rapamycin, or go higher or lower from the median prior to rapamycin?
Also - if you were tracking HRV and RHR, did you have a trend in any specific direction (e.g. up or down), similar to Mike’s report below?
I’m also reaching out to the researchers doing the Monkey Rapamycin study to see if they have any data or understanding of this metric as it relates to rapamycin.
And - general data on HRV and RHR from Mike Lustgarten:
This is preliminary data only, but I stretched out my last dosage of rapa to 10 days instead of my usual weekly. During the last three days past my missed weekly dose my resting heart rate and HRV normalized. I took rapa at that point, but at 5 instead of my usual 6 mg (still with GFJ though) and no changes happened to my resting heart rate or HRV. Both continued to trend in the right direction. So after my last dose, instead of their usual dip in the wrong direction, they continued to improve.
I’ve also been exercising a bit more so that could be a confounding variable. And I have added a heavy dosage of supplements, so again, not apples to apples compared to the status quo ante, but I’ll stick to every 10 days dosage at 5 mg + GFJ if the trend continues.
Started Rapa in Oct (maybe late Sep) - 1mg increase weekly till I hit 6mgs. Stayed at 6mg for about 3-4 weeks. Then increased to 8mg.
HRV (while still low) def increased on Rapa (no other changes in diet, exercise, supplements, medication, etc.).
Maybe 6mgs is my ‘sweet spot’.
Oh, and resting HR:
Some good data on this thread.
I spent 12 months trialing various dosages of Rapamune and found anything over 6mg/wk had a (loosely) dose dependent negative effect on RHR and HRV.
@medaura as a petite female I would strongly caution against using GFJ. Based on @Agetron prior analysis you could be taking the equivalent of >30mg!
A screen scrape from elite
I took Rapamycin on 8th Jan just before the start of this. I am male aged 62 and the main variation is caused by alcohol.
The screen scrape from fitbit for HR/RHR a) is not daily b) I am not a fan of their algorithm, also is primarily influenced by whether I am drinking alcohol or not. Fitbit currently says my rhr is 52, but I averaged 54 bpm whilst asleep. I am not really sure that is right. Hence I am not going to provide a screen scrape from fitbit.
I measure my HR in the morning using a polar H10 and elite whilst lying in bed (and actually whilst measuring my hr and bp because that takes less time than the 150 seconds for HRV hence I can take the bp and record it in the time between starting elite and getting the result.)
As so far I have only taken Rapamycin twice I am not sure what the above adds, but it is useful to have data to compare where people are not taking Rapamycin weekly.
Whatever these cardiac effects are about, they do seem to be dose related , so clearly finding the sweet spot is the smart thing to do.
Agreed. I even think RHR could be used to optimise dosage (HRV seems too inconsistent from my data). Keep all variables constant and increase weekly rapa dosage until you see a significant (>3bpm) increase.
It does seem, that in certain people, rapamycin is functioning as a sympathomimetic at higher doses. Makes no sense but it is what it is.
Elite attempts to determine whether the balance is towards the sympathetic or parasympathetic system. I have recorded this (although I don’t know how good it is) and could look it up for the two days I have taken Rapa, but I am not sure this information is any use because other factors affect this outcome as well - including particularly how well one has slept and alcohol consumption.
New user here - Hi!
I’m 69, M, UK, 63kg (139lbs)
I use both the Oura ring and Apple watch (set to a-fib ie. 4 HRV readings per hour when relaxed) also a 24-hour clinically proven BP monitor and, more recently, a CGM.
Started Rapamycin @1mg 12th May 2023 and increased dose by 1mg every 6 days to 6mg on 10th June 2023.
From my readings, HRV has declined approximately 15% over the 5 weeks, RHR has increased by 2-3 BPM and BP has risen from a long-term, well managed, 115:73 to 120:75. These changes are clearly visible on the following images.
The first one shows a significant increase in HRV between weeks 8 and 17 when I started using an indoor rower for 20 mins a day 4 or 5 days a week.
The second image shows the decline since week 18 when I first started using Rapamycin.
The BP graphs are self explanatory with readings prior to 12th May and after.
Blood glucose doesn’t appear to have changed judging by the past three weeks readings since using the CGM.
I’ll most probably wait a week now to see if my HRV recovers and then possibly re-start with a 5mg dose.
Originally I was intending to stick at 6mg pw or 12mg alternate weeks.
I have no special knowledge, just n = 1 observances. I have been off of Rapamycin for about 4 weeks and my RHR has returned to my pre-Rapa value. My HRV has also recovered. I have had a bad headache sometimes if the dosage gets too high (meaning the combination of the dose that I took and whatever I have eaten that affects the bioavailability). Last time I took 3 mg and that night I happened to be wearing a CGM that gave a low glucose alarm 4 times (low glucose alarm has never happened before). I also had a headache. I am not diabetic and don’t take any medication that should give me low glucose levels. Anyway, I think if you use wearables to get real time data and you get the dosage high enough, you will see impacts. I won’t take 3 mg again.
If I had your BP data and saw it go up, that would give me pause.
I also have seen a number of supplements or foods (besides grapefruit) that are reported to affect the bioavailability. Taking it with grapefruit has been demonstrated to increase the bioavailability by up to 350%. So, in practice, your actual blood levels could be quite different from one week to another depending upon your diet or supplements.
HRV seems to be tied to overall general health and sleep time. I am confused by the screenshot that says “Sleep 11 h 50 min” What is your average sleep time? Low HRV is associated with short or low-quality sleep time.
I have experienced similar increases in RHR and lowering of HRV from Rapa — also measured by Oura ring — but they seemed to be a short term phase and now my body is used to it (been taking rapa since early February, titrating up dosage to yours — 4-5mg / week — but with GFJ, so effectively higher). Now my RHR is back to normal and my HRV is higher than pre-rapa. Once in a while, like this week, I start feeling crappier the day or two after my rapa dose. Actually I’ve had a lingering headache and low HRV since this Monday (my rapa day). I wonder if whatever I ate on top of the glass of GFJ I washed it down with increased its bioavailability even more, or if I’m just on the verge to getting a bit sick. Depending on how I feel come Monday again I may skip my dose or go 2mg.
Overall though rapa has been good for my HRV even though at the beginning it seemed to be doing the exact opposite.
That figure confused me too and I’ve now emailed the app developer to query the figure - coincidentally Cardiogram gives similar amounts. They are of course entirely incorrect and I generally have good sleep with an average 90% rating in Oura and 7-8 hours a night. I’ve monitored this using Oura for three or more years and have always scored very highly.
Interestingly, and I only just noticed, I have reduced quality sleep almost every time I take Rapamycin - I wake early and am unable to get back to sleep (wake up very wide awake and ready for the day!)
Interesting! I don’t take GFJ with mine (bioperine and a high fat meal or bulletproof coffee) but when I looked further into my figures I seem to be pretty similar to you. On a lower dose I seemed to be doing ok with rebounds in my HRV after a few days so I intend waiting a week to see if my HRV improves and then trying again at 4mg pw rather than higher. I too have felt pretty grotty since my dose of 6mg last Saturday and had a headache after a couple of days necessitating paracetamol which is very rare for me.
One thing which I think may have skewed my figures is that I donated blood a day before my dose of 3mg i.e. a few weeks after starting at 1mg. I got bad bruising for the first time in almost 50 donations which lasted 10 days although I guess this could/should have been anticipated but this will also have depleted my iron stores which may in turn have led to even worse HRV results. I home tested today and it showed fine however I have another full panel in a couple of weeks time so I’ll see for certain.
One thing which has improved is by breathing apparently - by 0.4 breaths per minute over the past two months! So it’s not been all negative for me so far.
Thanks for the input btw!
Curious — what is considered an improvement in breathing? Breaths per minute? Is higher or lower better?
