Prostate Cancer and Rapamycin?

Life can change in a flash.

Two days ago I wouldn’t have paid much attention to this thread. But Friday, during a visit to a urologist with BPH issues, a digital returned “nodule on the R side.” Three hours later I was looking at a PSA of 54. (Note: Above 4 is a cause for concern.

I haven’t been diagnosed yet but from that 54 PSA the real question now has the CA gone metastatic.

A beginning of a journey that about 300,000 other men traverse every year.

Thanks all for the responses, there’s plenty to read there.

Btw, I think I know “how I got it.” 1972, I spent a summer spraying herbicide under power lines. The herbicide was 3-4-5T aka “agent orange.”

Interestingly, yesterday I took my first full 6mg of Siralimus having gone from 1mg>6mg. I’m thinking of cutting back to 2mg w/ GFJ and doing a max blood test + one at 24hr and one at 72 to find my metabolizing rate and then up to 3mg w/ GFJ and so on.

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17ae2 could be worth trying

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@Justin Any follow up on your situation?

Because I started this topic, I wanted to offer a follow-up. This is not useful, but it’s closure.

My friend died in March. He did not die from prostate cancer, but with it. He used to tell me how that was more likely in his demographic, and was in a sense the situational win. Though he wanted another ten years, at least. But that’s neither here nor there.

I suggested rapamycin to him, but he never ended up trying it. He was using some other alternative and mainstream treatments – I am fairly confident that it was the radiation that tipped him over into decline. I’m not going to say much about the alt treatments because I don’t want to imply anything about how well they worked or didn’t.

While this update is irrelevant to this discussion, I wanted to offer closure.

Carry on.

PS: he was fairly well known as a citizen researcher in other biohacking circles. If you want to read the post I made to phoenixrising.me about him, please contact me directly.

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Thanks for asking KarlT. I have a T2b/0/0 tumor with extra-prostatic extensions into adjacent structures but with a current depth of <10mm. Using the Yale formula which looks at numerous tumor factors the likelihood of distant metastes exceeds 100%, yet there are no distant metastases, according to a PSMA-pet scan (~80% sensitive), a very + thing.

I’ve been to many “radocs” (radiation docs) and one very good medical oncologists. It is fascinating, you may have a hankering for tenderloin, but if the butcher is out of beef, he’ll wax poetic about the flavor of his chicken—and that’s largely what I experienced.

Prostate Cancer (PCa) is largely sequestered into groups based upon Gleason Scores, PSA values, tumor size and whatnot, and treatment is really very “cookbook’ish.”

Therefore, what I got from all was: Lupron for 2-3 years + IMT radiation therapy (8 weeks) + a bit of prayer. My prayer itinerary, from a distant past (Boy Scouts) was, “rub a dub, bud, thanks for the grup, yay God.”

What I intend is Orgovyx + Abiraterone + 5 weeks of IMRT radiation + 1 week of radiation to pelvic lymph nodes (in case there are micro-metases.) Then, I will got to Dana Farber in Boston and get what is known as brachytherapy, where they place rice-sized radioactive “seeds” in the prostate. I hope to be done w/ the Orgo + Abi at the end of one year—the Androgen Deprivation Drugs are brutal, but one year is doable. On the other hand, I’ll do a Decipher genome test which allocates a number from 0.01>0.99, higher = more aggressive. If high, I’d likely stay on those terrible meds longer.

This combination appears to give me an 80% chance of ten-year survival. More importantly, over the standard therapy, the graphs using brachytherapy “goes flat,” which means a good likelyhood of a 12-15 year survival. I had hoped to live to age 95, based upon my genetic family past.

Why Orgovyx? Lupron, the “old” standard, if I had been on for 2-years would take about 2-years for my Testosterone to bounce back (and it may never bounce back at all). Orgovyx allows one’s T to bounce back in a couple of months. Further Orgovyx has a much better cardio profile.

The Orgovyx cost, retail = $2,950 a month. I’m told that I should be happy because I only pay $850/month on Medicare Advantage. But, as I do with my Sirolimus, I am buying 4 months to be shipped from India, to arrive near the end of the month.

Interestingly, next year the “cap” (currently $7500/year) on meds w/in my insurance drops to $2,000, so starting January, I won’t need to get them from India.

In the meantime, hoping to prevent any distant metastases I’ve been taking Sirolimus + 1200mg ALA + 1 gram NAC + Curcumin (1.5g 95%) + Ubiquinol 200mg + Celecoxib + Rosuvastation + Metformin, each which has anti-proliferative and anti-angiogenesis effects. There is no “cure,” there but there may well be the creation of a micro-environment that makes a micrometastatic tumor unable to grow or create it’s necessary blood supply.

In addition, over the past year I’d water fasted 44 days (1,2,3 and a few 4-day fasts) and have been in +1 or more ketosis for more than 80% of days, all of which may have been the reason that the Yale formula predicted distant metastases yet I appear to have none.

It’s a fascinating, but tiring journey.

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I would be interested in finding out what citrate does in this situation. It is clearly a splicing issue.

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Me too, citrate is fascinating. Alas, one substance at a time…

Some papers indicate the normal dietary quantity of citrate is around 4g per day although this will vary.

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What is the best form of citrate? or most absorbable?

There is a topic on this

I searched on topics but couldn’t find anything about the best type of citrate?

This is where @John_Hemming talks about his protocol.

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Prostate enlargement and cancer are the clearest examples of the hyperfunctional theorem of aging. When you are young, it is the size of a walnut, but after 65, if you have not taken any supplements or precautions, it becomes almost the size of a tangerine or even an orange, and eventually these extremely hypertrophic cells become cancerous. Therefore, in the 40s, rapamycin prevents this outcome by preventing all the ways I have described. The patient has nothing to lose, rapamycin is also an immunomodulator when given in low and intermittent doses. It may be beneficial to try intermittent and low-dose rapamycin.

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Alternatively prostate cancer is a fine example of aberrant splicing.

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The strategy kept the company going in the runup to a December readout of positive phase 3 results for its lead viral immunotherapy candidate CAN-2409 in prostate cancer, reaching the primary endpoint of disease-free survival. The prospective drug is an off-the-shelf virus that delivers a type of herpes simplex gene to induce an immune response along with radiation therapy.

Because Candel had a special protocol assessment agreement with the FDA, the prostate trial could serve as registrational for regulatory approval, and Tak said the company is aiming for a fourth-quarter submission to the agency. The biotech is also using similar therapeutic approaches for earlier-stage candidates in diseases like non-small cell lung cancer, pancreatic cancer and high-grade glioma.

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Prostate enlargement (benign) and prostate CA are separate entities. Enlargement does not predict an increased cancer risk. Anecdotally, I see far more patients with small prostates and bad cancer as compared to massive prostates with bad cancer. Rare to do a RARP on a patient with a >100g gland. Very common to do a HOLEP for benign BPH in this demographic. Furthermore, enlargement (BPH) happens in the transitional zone whereas 70% of cancers occur in the peripheral zone. We do see transitional zone cancers, but they are less common and again I don’t see a predilection toward those with larger prostates.

I do agree BPH is essentially hyper function. Tend to see larger prostates in men with obesity, insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome. Some interesting data that the pre-prostatic fat pad can secrete cytokines in a paracrine fashion that will induce anterior tumor formation in this same metabolically deranged group.

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Long read…you are warned.

Here’s a follow-up to my prior (14 months ago) follow-up.

As a recap: June 2024 I discovered that I had prostate cancer. PSMA was 54 so, at first it was, “expect to die (they don’t use quite that verbiage) in 3-5 years,” because it likely has spread distantly.

Immediately they wanted to do a trans-rectal biopsy which is pretty much as it sounds, enter your rectum via your anus and stick 9 meaty needles through the rectal wall to obtain some “cores.”

“Screw that,” I thought and sought out a urologist who did the same, trans-peritoneal, under anesthesia. It was pretty much a cake walk.

A fairly new tech thing, PSMA-PET scan was valuable, as it ruled out distant mets (bone, liver, lungs, etc.) The only negative is that it costs (supposedly $30,000) but you can get it done in Belgium for US$700, go figure. I ended up going to the wrong place and they are billing me $3,000. I had explained that I was concerned as to whether they were in network. I was told, “that’s all set, we already have authorization.” I could have gone to a nearby place that was in network. That’ll be a court battle, eventually.

The PSMA was negative except for a small ~5mm extra prostatic extension into the pelvic sling.

What is interesting is that the 12-months prior to its discovery I had been using Sirolimus, and had 44 days of fasting (2 & 3-day fasts) and had gone from 220 to 164.

From discovery to radiation, I was using modified pectin and a number of other supplements known to cause cancer death, to prevent cancer spread, and so on. NAC; Tran-Pterostibine; Astaxanthin; Ashwagandha; Berberine; Turmeric, Piprine and others.

I bypassed the first Oncologist who was overtly paternalistic and “this is what we will do…”

A second Oncologist was superb, just superb, but he suggested an associate which I could walk to from my house, which beat an all day trip (radiation is 28 sessions).

The third Oncologist was a 2nd opinion from a woman at Dana Farber who had a global reputation, and who confirmed that my choice of Orgovxy + Abiraterone was a much better choice than the usual Lupron which almost everyone gets (and IMO, nobody should get).

The 4th Oncologist was the fellow down the street. The 5th was a Radoc, Radiation Oncologist who looked at my med record and said: “Gosh, you’ve been to 4 Oncologists—that must be a record.” I ignored that, the fellow knew his stuff, so who gives a hoot about bedside manner.

I put off IMRT (radiation) for 9 months, hoping to shrink my prostate. This did work, with a 48% volume reduction. Imagine a baseball, then add 6mm to its radius. Now, imagine a golf ball, the sphere of intense radiation shrinks, protecting organs like the rectum, and bladder. 48% reduction was tremendous, though the docs won’t discuss the difference between the two scenarios.

My onc wanted to do the usual Lupron, but seemed wow’d by the woman Oncologist at Dana Farber so agreed to the two meds I wanted. So I went on Orgovyx + Abiraterone (Theoretical retail cost was $146,000). I bought some from India at $200/month for both (Cipla, so high quality). I later found these strange “plans,” so that means I got all my meds for free.

I think this how that worked: Retail for Orgovyx was $6,000/month. I think they gave me free meds, and then collected the retail price from Medicare, so let’s say they paid $500 and got $6,000, it’s very strange. My Medicare records show that I “paid” $2,000 co-pay, for these meds. I paid zero. Weird Shenanigans.

When I went on the two Androgen Deprivation meds, I stopped that entire list above as every single one inhibits the Cytochrome P450 3a4 enzymatic systems. The effect on Abiraterone had I stayed on them (for instance Curcumin + Piprine) could have caused a blood level increase of the Abiraterone 4-7x, thereby increasing adverse effects. This is the same as drinking grapefruit juice with Sirolimus to increase blood levels.

The 28 sessions of IMRT (radiation) were uneventful. Sadly, most men can have an injection of hyaluronic acid gel placed between the rectum and the prostate. This was contraindicated in me because of the extra prostatic extension (damn).

I’m now 10 days post-IMRT with some mild, expected issues such as urinary urgency, and GI upset which should go away in some weeks. The biggest negative I have is “Dolly Parton” boobs. I asked to be sent to ultrasound to see if this was steroid induced fat (which is also affected by the fact that the body senses itself as female, no male, with all testosterone shut down), but the Ultrasound Path doc would not answer the question: Are there any signs of gynecomastia (true female tissue development) which affects about 14% of men on this regime. The idiot would only answer: “Congratulations, you do not have cancer.” Ultimately, I gave up.

If the boobs are female tissue I’ll get a double mastectomy, and I’m serious. The social “trans” movement has created a large number of surgeons that specialize, and the outcome is superb (20 years ago it was horrid). The other real issue was muscle loss. One year ago on a lat push-down device I could press 185lbs, today, about 95. But that will come back. Testosterone will return in a month or three.

I did pressure my Onc, repeatedly for a new genomic test called the Decipher and was very happy that I did. Genomically, the tumor is non aggressive and I hope to go off the ADT meds in a week or two, earlier than expected. (But remember, most men with similar cancers would be stuck on the barbaric and dangerous Lupron for two years).

The Decipher test predicts, for my cancer a less than 4% chance of recurrence within 10 years. Hey’ I’ll take that any day.

I would like to start back up on Sirolimus. I was buying mine from Jagdish. I’d be very appreciative if someone were to summarize if Jagdish is still selling and how the tariffs are affecting things. It may be that going so some Sirolimus doc and then buying generic is the only way today.

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Do any of you have an opinion regarding TULSA (Transurethral Ultrasound Ablation) Procedure for prostate tumors? Dr. Joseph Busch is an advocate of this approach. I listened to a podcast in which he discussed prostate cancer diagnosis and treatment. He made a strong case for using MRI to guide biopsies. I am less convinced that TULSA is a better approach than radiation from a linac, but I have not found any survival data.

Focal therapy doesn’t have long term data. HIFU, Cryo, Tulsa, Nanoknife. All versions of focal therapy. Not bad for Gleason 6 or 3+4 focal disease based on fusion biopsy but personally wouldn’t mess around with Gleason 8-10 and focal therapy. Have a robotic prostatectomy in that case.

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