I donated whole blood 47 times (until the Red Cross pissed me off so I stopped). There is evidence that giving blood reduces all cause mortality especially in men. Probably by reducing iron overload.
There is no evidence that simply donating plasma has the same effect as plasma dilution, which changes a larger volume more frequently.
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Plasma dilution dilutes half the plasma so about 2,000ml-3,000ml, versus plasma donation is around 700-800ml and doesnt involved albumin replacement, so technically this was essentially a plasma donation level procedure.
By the way, can you donate plasma in Russia?
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I’ll clarify my procedure here again:
3 x 250ml per session = 750 ml
3 sessions = 2.25 litres.
So; not exactly a plasma donation.
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As for cost, in the US if you donate, it is free. I’ve donated about 18 Liters of plasma since mid 2021. Recent 3 month hiatus. Mostly plasma only at 800 mls per, but also platelet donations which also involves plasma loss. What I haven’t done well is scientifically track blood markers, but I intend to improve that and also employ some of the markers (DNA damage for example) mentioned in the 2022 Conboy paper, which included a small sample of human data. For anyone doing regular donations of any kind, you should check ferritin levels to ensure it doesn’t go too low and require supplementation. Donation does not involve albumin replacement, but Conboy data suggests albumin does not play a role in the positive effects they saw, and albumin is rapidly replenished by our liver.
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There is no evidence either way, but that is because lab work to date has not done a dose response on plasma loss. But with 50% removal showing a marked effect in animals, it seems plausible that 25% removal multiple time will have at least some positive effect. There was testing on removal of “Forever chemicals” by either standard plasma donation or whole blood donation. Both had a positive effect, with plasma donation being better. So plasma donation will at least remove toxins.
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I’ve donated blood once. I regret not doing more (I’m O+). I’ve already put my next 3 donations on the schedule. I’m after reduced iron and any other benefits I can grab by doing something useful for my neighbors.
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About 70 % of my blood plasma was removed when visiting Kiprov’s clinic, or about 2.4 litres, if I remember correctly. What makes that superior to the 2.25 litres removed in three rounds by DrT?
One difference is that the albumin was not replaced for DrT, but this should rather rapidly be replenished by the liver.
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I give (sell) plasma twice weekly here. They take 800 ml of plasma each time.
I tried to do the math to figure out how many donations would be equivalent to a dilution (I just get saline, no albumin) given the rate at which the plasma restores itself and the limitation of twice weekly donation.
IIRC Conboy doesn’t think the albumin is the magic part of this process. Anyhow, my estimate was between 11 and 17 do,nations at twice a week (800 ml each) would work out to the one shot 2000-3000 ml dilution.
There is evidence it helps keep cholesterol low and, to me, the worst case is I’m putting an extra $100 in my pocket to read a book for 40 minutes, get my blood pressure, hematocrit, serum protein, and use a consistent high quality scale.
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Twice per week seems very frequent. I was under the impression that plasma was usually not accepted more often than once per fortnight. Obviously the regulations differ between jurisdictions.
In the US, I think plasma can be donated up to twice every 7 days:
The maximum plasma donation frequency is once in 2-day period, and no more than twice in a 7-day period.
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Could ypu give us the math behind 11 - 17 donations of 800 ml twice a week equalling one 2000-3000 ml dilution?
I threw the paper out where I did the calculations last spring. I no longer know what I used as starting numbers and I’m certain I was unclear on how plasma volume scales with body weight. It must because for persons 175lbs and greater they take an 800 ml donation, for those in the 150-175 lbs range it is 750 ml, and 110 - 150 lbs is 625 ml. But, the idea went something like this.
Estimate total plasma volume is 2.75 liters. The phlebs take 30% (800 ml). You need to replace/remove 90% of the old plasma to be the equivalent of one of the Conboy dilution treatments. Your body can keep up with replacing that much plasma at the twice in 7 days donation rate.
Visit 1 - 30% old plasma gone, 70% old plasma remains
Visit 2 - 30% existing plasma taken. That’s 0.3* 0.7 of the old stuff and 0.3* 0.3 of the newly generated. Now 1-0.3- 0.3*.0.7 old plasma remains (49% old plasma).
Visit 3 - 35% remains (49% -0.3*49%)
Visit 4 - 25% remains
Visit 5 - 18% remains
Visit 6 - 13 % remains
Visit 7 - 9% remains - Victory
So, my memory may be off and it seems like it was probably 7 -11, not 11 to 17. Obviously the estimate for total plasma volume is going to strongly influence the percentages as is your donation size.
Scheduling, not getting turned away for high pulse or low protein, etc. means getting those 7-11 in within 4 - 6 weeks is pretty tough. At least for me it is.
In Australia it’s once every 2 weeks.
I’d be careful…
“ Repeated plasmapheresis with albumin replacement will deplete a patient’s reserve of immunoglobulins for several weeks, and this, combined with complement removal, could result in an immunodeficient state.”
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There’s some fuzziness on what volume is removed by TPE but I think it is on the order of 2/3rds of total plasma volume. That is because you are continuously removing plasma and replacing with blood cells and saline (and anti coag). My plasma volume is about 3 liters (average of two methods). Conboy’s animal experiments did 50% replacement and saw positive effects. In any case, if you look at the graphs and heat maps in the paper you can see clear changes after one or two TPEs. R0 is before the first TPE. If you donate in the US at a regular blood bank they will take 800 mls of plasma (for 175 lbs and over) every 4 weeks. This is plasma-only donation, not whole blood which has only about 250 mls of plasma per donation. There are plasma-only donation centers (CSL Plasma for example) which will take 2 plasma donations every week. In any case, you can do plasma donation and test blood markers like DNA damage and immune cell markers to check effects. In a year’s time one could donate approximately 3 to 4 plasma volumes. Free.
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When I went and did my series of 6 TPE treatments they said the target was around 90% of total plasma. Details here: Plasmapheresis Startup Looking for Clinical Trial Participants SF Bay Area
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Actually to look only at plasma volume is to miss some of the picture. There is a lot of fluid in between cells which drains into the circulation system. Being in close proximity to any senescent cells the fluid will be carrying progeroid factors. So, after plasma removal, the progeroid factors will be partly replaced by extracellular fluid. This explains why several rounds of plasma exchange are advised.
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Yes. I have been trying to understand the interplay between blood plasma and interstitial fluid. And, for example, what affects sweating might have on both. There’s some evidence that sweating will remove certain toxins suggesting (pure speculation on my part) that chronic sauna use or exercise which promotes sweating might help remove some of the negative proteins/metabolites that plasma donation does. In any case, for the older among, us routine removal of old plasma (optimum volume and frequency unknown) might have significant positive long term effects which would not be obvious over the course of a few weeks or months. And part of this effect could be, and it makes sense to me, the effect on interstitial fluid.
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I think oddly enough the key cytokine is il-10. There was a phd thesis that did not get into a journal that showed il10 created senescence. Noting senescence is patchy it seems that a lot of progeroid tranafer is very local.
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Hmmm. That didn’t come across as very sensible.
“So, after plasma removal, the progeroid factors will be partly replaced by extracellular fluid.”
Should have read that the “plasma will be partly replaced…”
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