This is the compound sold under the brand name Fatty15. The author of the paper sited by Attia, is Stephanie Venn-Watson, who with her husband, are the owners of the Fatty15 brand. Attia wrote very positively about C15:0 and even linked a connection to Dr Rich Miller at the ITP.
It’s hard to imagine that someone as worldly wise as Peter Attia doesn’t know about the connection between C15:0 and Fatty15 or the link to the papers author and co-owner of Fatty15, Stephanie Venn-Watson.
Today, I got an email from Fatty15 with a link back to the Peter Attia article.
I’m a self confessed fan of Peter Attia and I take C15:0, but to my knowledge, Rich Miller / ITP have not done any testing on C15:0 although the Attia article seems to be suggesting a link, the way I read it?
The Fatty15 folks thank Dr. Attia for sharing their science and note that this is not a paid endorsement but…
I’m not an investigative journalist but does anyone else think this has the same “feel” as the Peter Attia / Oura Ring relationship?
Peter’s newsletter has a simple summary of the research, along with some other studies, which paraphrases the original paper itself. Peter does not do his usual longform analysis and come to a conclusion summarized in the quote. Rather it seems that fatty15 has taken a summary, probably written by Peter’s research staff, and put Peter’s name and picture beside it for promotional impact.
I’ve stopped reading Attia’s newsletter. And I put The Drive at the bottom of my podcast queue. He and his team are smart but they have conflicts of interest (known and unknown) and they make mistakes that have negatively impacted my life (because I believed them, which is on me). I learned a lot from Attia over the years, including some things I’m having to unlearn.
I do not think Attia is lying (per se) or breaking the law. When he first pitched Fatty15, I was tempted, but then demurred. It was a little too “cutsey” of a product name. What slick advertising guy came up with the name? Why aren’t other researchers talking about it?
That alone was not enough to make me walk away, but Attia has a large audience and “bills to pay,” so it is to be expected that he would want to “monetize” that “asset” by accepting stock options or cash or quid pro quo favors for his valuable time, attention, analysis, and recommendations. It’s human nature, and indeed, I would probably do the same myself. So it is incumbent on us, the public consumers, to be aware that any touting of a labeled product is an “advertisement” paid in some “coin.” Advertisements may well contain true information, but their raison d’être is to generate revenue. Thus is the way of the world. So I pass on Fatty.
Contrast this with Brian Johnson’s refrain that he likes his products and they are great products, but buy what you want; just be sure to look for quality. That is an honest endorsement or advertisement.
But Johnson is independently wealthy, and I’m sure he has a different attitude towards money than does a “striving” wealthy person like Attia. And people striving for wealth create alot of “stuff” (podcasts, articles, research) and most of Attia’s “stuff” is valuable and free, so Attia’s peccadillo’s are forgiven and he is humbly thanked for his many great gifts of knowledge, experience and expert advice.
Could you please elaborate on any mistakes they have made on their own, apart from the broader longevity field, that have negatively impacted your life?
I’m just asking out of genuine interest, not disagreeing with you.
Attia has done a great job, and from my perspective, he has given way more than he has received. My criticisms were largely about the YouTube/influencer financial aspects. A guy’s got to make a buck, and Attia does it in a kind, gentle way, not over-hyping at all. But recall Big Pharma warps the “science” gravity field wherever it treads, remember Surgisphere. I hate to see the same thing develop in the YouTube space. So, Yes I’m nit-picking. And I’ve gathered more than I have sown, and I’m wearing a dead man’s clothes, so admittedly Attia is head and shoulders above me both physically and morally.
I’m not sure I understand the distinction between “mistakes they have made on their own” vs. mistakes from “the broader longevity field”. I rely on “experts” to help me filter out the crap and prioritize the good stuff that floats around the internet. If an expert cannot be relied upon to do that well because they are too impulsive, too interested in clickbait, too conflicted to have my best interests at the top of their interests…then I cannot use them. I’m not saying it is unethical for people to make a living. I’m also not saying that experts cannot make mistakes and improve over time. This is about me. I’m doing my best in real time to make good decisions. I use experts to help me. I gain confidence slowly and I lose confidence slowly for mistakes and quickly for ethical conflicts.
My history with Attia:
Keto: after listening to Attia talk about ketosis for a long time I decided to take the plunge (many years ago). After a bit of “keto flu” I felt great. No hunger, unlimited energy, resolved digestion issues, lost weight. I became a true believer. I couldn’t stop talking about this miracle …this better than natural way of eating. I then found out Attia had stopped doing keto 100% of the time. Why would he stop the “one true diet”? Then I stopped too as I never really got past the LDL impact of high fat diet (I ate a lot of saturated fat and was not on any medication).
Fasting: I then followed Attia into fasting. He was doing his regular long fasts. Fasting made sense. It wasn’t some artificial way of living. Fasting was an environmental condition from our ancient past. I dove in. Ketosis and autophagy were somehow important. So I did monthly 3 day water fasts to get my benefits. I was not lifting very often due to 15 hours a week cycling. My upper body evaporated despite assurances that GH elevation during fasts would protect me. Then Attia quit fasting due to loss of muscle mass. Now I focus on FMD and regular 24 hour fasting around rapa dosing. I also lift a lot.
Statins: I resisted taking a statin for a long time. I was afraid of muscle weakness. Attia said he was taking a statin and had no issues. He said apoB should be as low as possible for longevity. I gave in and started on atorvastatin (muscle aches) and then low dose rosuvastatin (no issues at first). I was also taking coq10. Then I started having some post lifting aches (shifted to EOD dosing). I also had a strange decline in my power output. I thought it might be (in sequence): getting old, rapamycin, metformin. No changes helped so I concluded it was age. Then I read about GG. I tried it and MIRACLE! My power came back. It was the statin all along. So I switched to bempadoic acid (and quit the GG), and now I have good apoB and I am strong again. Then I found out Attia had quit his statin some time in the last. WTF!
He is too aggressive and quick to high confidence for me. His guests are good so I’ll listen sometimes. My go-tos now are: kaeberlein, Simon hill, Danny Lennon, Glenn McConnell
@Virilius If he was experiencing the same side effects as me then why not switch to a better product? I will never go back to a statin. Just from a quality of life point of view I wouldn’t use a statin even if I had no other medication options. Fortunately I have multiple options.
Good reply. I totally agree with you and I’ve been through a similar journey over the last ten years with keto, fasting and statins. It’s true that most “influencers” are incentivized to change their minds and be enthusiastic and aggressive with their choices in order to get more views and reactions etc to be at the top of peoples feeds. The temptation to make money and be popular is just human nature so nobody is immune. There always has to be a next best thing. I suppose to defend Attia I’d say it’s better that he does change his mind rather than stick to his guns when the science has changed. I must admit my opinion on him has evolved in the last year or so and I’m more skeptical of his choices regarding what he promotes and especially fatty15 after watching the Brad Stanfield video.
Reactions to statins are very individual. They definitely don’t work for everyone, there are even articles in pop science explaining why some folks can’t take them for genetic reasons. This doesn’t mean they don’t work for a lot of people, or are not beneficial for them. And in trying statins it makes sense to identify the problem, for example pitavastatin apparently does’t affect the muscles or glucose control.
Ultimately, the goal is individualized medicine, because we are all different. We look at population level studies because we don’t have the tools at present to tailor interventions on an individual level. But studies are crude aggregates of many disparate people, something may work great for 95% or 60% of people but be utterly wrong for you, and you don’t know ahead of time. A diet may work fantastic for Bob, but be a disaster for Joe. We all respond based on our physiology, microbiome, environment and history.
I used to be a big Peter Attia fan, but have pulled back a bit. I don’t think he’s a hustler like Huberman, or borderline conman like David Sinclair. But I find his analysis often surprisingly sloppy (given his devotion to the scientific method), and various sudden enthusiasms frequently unwarranted. He’s surprisingly vulnerable to woo, often having guests on who espouse various spiritual/emotional/life-wisdom nostrums which are just fads of the moment with no real science behind it. He latches on to fads far too quickly and with too little examination of the evidence (that’s where the keto and fasting fall, and now his absurd advocacy for the overconsumption of venison protein, etc., endlessly). I find it tedious, and only listen when he has genuine researchers on, which is increasingly rare - and while he was never a particularly fabulous interviewer, he’s gotten worse, loves to hear himself talk, the questions crowd out the answers, and gets lost in tangents unable to get back to the original point. I now listen to his podcast once every few weeks, depending on whom he gets.
I’d like to get hold of these statins that are hopefully better for reducing muscle related side effects but apparently are not on sale in India according to Jagdish. I’ve asked him about Pravastatin and I’m pretty sure I’ll get the same answer for Pitavastatin but I’ll give it a go.
I’ve mentally put C15 into my ‘interesting, but no-way would i take that yet’ basket. I’d need to see more evidence both that it’s safe and that it works; and there are drugs that work quite well now that i can tolerate.