Tough to get dessicated thyroid in Australia. Any good sources?
Thanks Luke!
If I’m understanding you correctly, it sounds like I got the t3 aspect backwards. For the first time, thinking I was clever, I didn’t take my t3 the morning of my labs in order not to get falsely elevated numbers. Maybe that is still a good idea anyway?
Would you think I should still get the t3 test done on occasion just to make sure my number doesn’t get too high, for safety reasons?
I’ll ask my doc for a touch more synthroid to get my tsh a little lower, so thanks for that.
FWIW…
Review the book titled:
Evidence-Based Approach to Restoring Thyroid Health - by Denis Wilson MD
See link below for PDF copy.
Book is 184 pages published in 2014
As the book is out of print People try to sell used copies for up to 10x the original retail price. A Person made a PDF copy available at no cost
1 Like
Really appreciated Joseph, and I’m happy to read this, so thank you for the share. I’ve been hypothyroid since my first test in my 20s and have never really had a thorough enough understanding of the topic.
I think you did the right thing by not taking the T3 before the lab draw actually. I have done it both ways and have seen the peak on a blood test but could still feel like crap, which kind of told me the number on the paper doesn’t necessarily dictate the symptoms or else I would have felt great in the moment I had the blood drawn, when I didn’t.
I still support testing the T3 when on the thyroid medication but I’m not sure how actionable it is unless it’s super high or low. When off thyroid meds, I think it is more important.
I have heard so many schools of thought and have personal experience here so that’s what I am basing this off of.
1 Like
I remember reading this a while ago. It’s heavily debated and controversial but there could be some merit. I know Denis Wilson got some heat on him. I thought his super high T3 use to fix the reverse T3 issue permanently is pretty far fetched. Here is an AI summary on him, which is a bit harsh.
“Yes, one of Dr. Denis Wilson’s patients died in 1988 from heart failure caused by excessive doses of thyroid hormone he prescribed
The patient, 50-year-old Lois Flurkey, had been receiving treatment for “Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome,” a condition not recognized by mainstream medicine.
This death and Wilson’s unconventional and dangerous practices led to serious disciplinary action:
- Medical license suspended: In 1992, the Florida Board of Medicine suspended Wilson’s medical license for six months and fined him $10,000.
- Ordered to stop prescribing: He was ordered to stop prescribing thyroid medication for the unproven condition.
- Treatment described as a “scam”: Florida State Medical Board members described Wilson’s temperature syndrome as a “phony syndrome” and a scam.
- Civil suit: The patient’s family filed a medical malpractice suit that was settled out of court.
For decades, medical authorities such as the American Thyroid Association (ATA) and the Mayo Clinic have rejected Wilson’s syndrome as a valid diagnosis, citing a lack of scientific evidence and the potential harm of its associated treatments.”
2 Likes
You should contact the person in real time.
His{Dr Denis Wilson MD} contact email wilsonbubble@gmail.com
From his own web site;
Opposition Dr. Wilson Faced In The Early Years Of Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome
“Such was the opposition Dr. Wilson faced early on. Doctors assumed and tried to portray Dr. Wilson’s work as being all about weight loss (as opposed to thyroid treatment for thyroid symptoms). Doctors weren’t disagreeing with Dr. Wilson’s views because they didn’t know his views (because his books hadn’t been written yet). They were disagreeing with what they assumed to be Dr. Wilson’s views.”
“Dr. Wilson was seeing excellent results and more and more patients came for treatment. Later, a few doctors complained to Florida’s Board of Medicine about Dr. Wilson’s treatment of a few patients (even though many of those patients themselves were well pleased with the results they had obtained). One of the complaints involved a woman in her 50’s who had a fatal heart attack that her daughter claimed was from Dr. Wilson’s treatment.”
"The complaints suggested that Dr. Wilson was using T3 as an inappropriate weight loss treatment, when in fact he was using it as thyroid medicine for thyroid symptoms. It is obvious from Dr. Wilson’s writings that the WT3 protocol is for low thyroid symptoms, not a treatment for weight loss, but his writings weren’t published at that time.’
“The Board was faced with the expensive proposition of taking those complaints to trial. (In addition, Dr. Wilson chose to get the word out about his treatment approach through heavy advertising, which was a concern for the Board). Likewise, Dr. Wilson was also faced with the expensive proposition of answering those issues in trial. The legal process between the Board and Dr. Wilson took time to transpire, during which he finished and published his book in 1991, Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome – A Reversible Low Temperature Problem (formerly, Wilson’s Syndrome — The Miracle of Feeling Well). However, Dr. Wilson’s legal counsel at the time suggested (perhaps unwisely) that no mention be made of it to the Board and to let perceptions lie as they were.”
“In order to avoid further expense on both sides, the Board of Medicine and Dr. Wilson entered into a Consent Agreement (compromise). Dr. Wilson agreed not to practice medicine for 6 months, pay a fine of $10,000, and not to treat Wilsons Temperature Syndrome until it was more widely accepted by the medical community. Since the case did not go to trial, it was not determined that Dr. Wilson had done anything wrong in his treatment of patients, nor was it determined that the Board of Medicine did anything wrong in bringing this action against him. In the consent agreement, both sides admitted no wrongdoing. When the 6 months had passed, Dr. Wilson chose not to begin practicing medicine again right away.”
“Many patients have dramatically recovered their health when they restored their temperatures to normal with the WT3 protocol, often after years of going from doctor to doctor without finding the help they needed. They often ask, “This was such a simple solution for me and there must be millions of people with the same problems, why doesn’t every doctor know about this?””
“Consequently, Dr. Wilson has devoted his full energy to educating doctors and patients about Wilsons Temperature Syndrome and its treatment, and has been working to get Wilsons Temperature Syndrome more widely recognized by the medical community. In 1993, Dr. Wilson devoted an entire year to finish the Doctor’s Manual for Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome. He has lectured about Wilsons Temperature Syndrome at Continuing Medical Education Approved Medical Conventions, appeared on Radio and TV shows, and has developed patient education and other materials.”
“The good news is that there are now hundreds, and probably thousands, of doctors who are reproducing Dr. Wilson’s fantastic results with the WT3 protocol. Patients all over the world are now obtaining relief for debilitating, and previously baffling symptoms. But Dr. Wilson gives most of the credit for the spread of Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome to:”
- Patients telling their doctors
- Patients getting treated and ‘reincarnated’, and telling their friends and family
- Doctors telling doctors
- Doctors telling their patients
“Though Dr. Wilson has experienced some opposition along the way, almost all of it appears to be due to tradition, and tradition is sometimes a little slow to change. However, in February 1999, the New England Journal of Medicine published an article about how adding T3 to patients’ thyroid treatment can often be beneficial. The article also mentioned that the favored regimen would involve sustained release T3.”
“Now, Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome is starting to be taught in some medical schools”
“We also recognize that herbs and nutrients can play a wonderfully supportive role in helping people to maintain good health.”
“In the beginning, quite a few doctors said there was nothing to the syndrome. Dr. Wilson was convinced otherwise, so he lent his name to the syndrome to prove the point. When Dr. Wilson named Wilsons Temperature Syndrome after himself no one believed it existed, but he stood up for the syndrome and the people suffering from it.”
“Dr. Wilson is married, has 5 children, is active in his church, and enjoys learning about and implementing technology”
The above is from:
Ignaz Semmelweis was treated like this even, worse for his ideas / procedures
took over 100 years to be accepted by the “Medical System” and he was correct from the very beginning.
One of many articles about Ignaz Semmelweis
The Doctor Who Championed Hand-Washing And Briefly Saved Lives : Shots - Health News : NPR
1 Like
Managed to find some but found it to make me really tired and anxious. Will be stopping taking it. Already feel better not taking it this morning.
1 Like
I get the same issues, particularly the fatigue and low motivation when I take it. I just don’t understand why and I have tried both low and high doses
2 Likes
Dude yea. I might try ultra low dose by splitting one of my capsules into 20 capsules and taking it 2-3 times a week in the future but for now I want to get back to how I was before this. I feel just awful on it. Fatigued, low motivation, didn’t exercise anywhere near as much, anxious, grumpy. Ugh.
1 Like
Did you mention your baseline thyroid labs anywhere?
Honestly seemed fine I was just curious what benefit I might get from adding in some thyroid. Also I am using growth hormone at the moment and I did hear that adding in some thyroid (or t4 or t3?) can be beneficial while using that. Note that these labs were done before adding in growth hormone.
2 Likes
Some ideas you could consider -
-high dose t4 only (300mcg/day).
-TRH ( Thyrotropin-releasing hormone) which seems to be more hypothalamus than pituitary.
-You ever tried a dopamine reuptake inhibitor like ritalin, wellbutrin, vyvanse? I recall you tried the modafinil, but these products are a little bit different.
While both overt hyperthyroidism (suppressed TSH, high free T4/T3) and overt hypothyroidism (very high TSH, low free T4) are associated with significantly increased morbidity and mortality in all age groups, those of us nearing 70 or older may want to evaluate their thyroid status differently by considering that borderline low T4 with borderline high TSH may be associated with longevity. The Leiden Longevity Study identified a thyroid phenotype characterized by higher-than-average TSH levels in conjunction with free T4 levels in the low-normal range. This suggests a centrally-mediated reset of the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis. This state may be a heritable trait associated with a slower metabolic rate and, ultimately, a longer, healthier lifespan but it might also be modifiable, conferring similar benefits.
There are a number of studies and findings on this topic (not mentioned here) that older adults may find interesting. The generalization is that a low normal or even mildly subclinical hypothyroid state is not detrimental in those over 75-80 and, in fact, appears to be a biomarker for, or contributor to, exceptional longevity. Conversely, a high normal or subclinical hyperthyroid state is consistently associated with increased mortality and cardiovascular risk in this population. IMO, the utility of standard TSH reference ranges derived from younger populations is greatly diminished when applied to older adults. Treatment for mild hypothyroidism at these ages may interfere with a potentially adaptive, pro-longevity metabolic state.
1 Like
T4 only wasn’t good for me either. My reverse T3 is already high but my hope was to take enough that it would still convert to just enough T3 but my lab level was lower than at baseline.
I actually did try injecting TRH years ago when my symptoms were really bad but I didn’t notice any difference at all.
My symptoms are much much better these days anyway. I just wonder if I’m leaving some energy on the table by having a Free T3 just below 3.
No I’ve never tried the amphetamines
Did you copy this from a link or did you type all this yourself? If there’s a link, I’d be interested in checking it out
These are my thoughts @LukeMV based on a synthesis of reading over the years. You will find many sources related to this discussion. Here are a couple of links I have handy. With a little searching, you will find others even more on point.
More broadly, thyroid function is not the only functional component in which one can find counterintuitive evidentiary trends. SHBG levels in the elderly is another that comes to mind.
2 Likes
Ah ok. That’s cool you tried injecting TRH! Good to hear your symptoms are much better.
That’s a tough call about the free t3 levels and energy.
If you have never tried ADHD medication (or other reuptake inhibitors) it’s something to try one day.
As there are 3 popular reuptake classes (dopamine, noradrenaline, serotonin) so some people stack various products. Some products have 2 in 1 etc.
Usually serotonin paird with dopamine or noradrenline. Some people do all 3.
I don’t believe Wellbutrin is an amphetamine. A lot of online pharmacies carry it.
Some people on this forum use it with good reviews. It appears to be a bit similar modafinil but more of a energy/motivation feel. Kinda like a more narrow focus (intense concentration).
Don’t know if you’ve read about Nandrolone use and it’s effect on neurotransmitters, but there are some interesting articles on animals/rodents. I’ve seen articles saying it can increase or decrease certain chemicals. Not sure what to think on it however.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0039128X13002195
Just linking a post on the subject from 2023
From chat GPT