No data on longevity benefits of rapamycin in humans?

I got a interesting comment from Bikman here is a part of it: “There are no data whatsoever that has found a longevity benefit to rapamycin in humans. Not a single study, and, unfortunately, there never will be–you just can’t practically do this kind of study. It’s possible rapa might work, but we will never know. There are too many moving parts when it comes to free-living humans.”
Source: Dr. Bikman on Instagram: "If you take #rapamycin in hopes of living longer, you’ll probably need to start taking #testosterone as well. If you inhibit #mtor, you inhibit testosterone. #longevity #lowtestosterone"

I have hard to believe this is true. We will most likely get more and more indications in the future that if it is aligned with longevity or not. But today is the only human data the Mannick study with improved immune system or does there exist some other studies showing benefits of longevity dose regimes for humans?

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I agree that this is somewhat of a concern but anecdotally the members here that tested their testosterone levels saw an increase…

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Yes, the anecdotal things are good that they are positive and not the other way around. Even if this is very weak evidence it is good that it’s not in the opposite redirection so that people are getting unhealthier or even dying earlier by taking rapa. But does there not exists any human studies showing benefits with rapamycin intake when it comes to longevity dose regimes?

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Biological age markers are showing me decades younger (Gylcans…DNA Methylation) and enough age difference that the CEO’s of these companies… who are scientists themselves want to know what I am doing…I am an extreme outlier in their testing.

So if my biological age is younger…I should live longer.

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That is really great and thanks for sharing your results but we don’t have any science studies in the longevity area when it comes to rapamycin?

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As posted several times.

“If you wait until you are ready, it is almost certainly too late.” ~Seth Godin

You can wait, I am not waiting.

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True - so we each do our own individual biological checking and compare the results. At some point patterns emerge and fairly reliable conclusions can be drawn.

An example is this group’s sharing of information on Grape Fruit Juice effect on dosage. Already seeing patterns. For me, the next look will be how higher dosages change, or not change – my biological age by glycans and methylation.

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Yes, I fully agree. The value of this community is really great and it have moved forward rapa movement. The thing we need to complement this movement is science studies on humans. It’s good that for example the PEARL study is soon fully enrolled. Here is the latest August updated on it.

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It’s definitely true. By definition, a “longevity benefit” means you ACTUALLY CHRONOLOGICALLY, LIVE MUCH LONGER taking rapamycin. There is no n=1, or an RCT trial that confirms this.

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As Dr.Ross Pelton states in the podcast everyone responds a little differently.

I definitely believe my benefits are real and significant.

Definitely feel the affirmation that the PEARL Researchers (an amazing team) being as careful as they are for accuracy, will use GlycanAge to get a baseline of biological age and to use as an end point.

The GlycanAge blood analysis says I am 27 years younger than my 64 years age… after 2 years of rapamycin. Just wish I had done a baseline reading. But, GlycanAge wasn’t fully online 3 years ago. And I really wasn’t sure what to expect.

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If it’s true then is also true about everything in life that can improve lifespan, or? For example, is there any longevity benefits when it comes to exercise?

You can do a great many “healthy things”, but it’s not a scientific/biological “given” that you deliver a significant lifespan extension. Again, in the context of RAPAMYCIN and what it does to various animal models…that’s the context of this question.

Exercise is one of the only proven HUMAN lifestyle interventions that categorically increases lifespan by reducing all cause mortality. Will exercise in and of itself help someone reach a 100, again, this is not definitively true.

Rapamycin is a pharmacological intervention, interrupting normal cellular biology, and dramatically deferring the onset of cancer. Although it “might” work the same way in humans 1. clinical trials with existing cancer patients on rapamycin have not produced great results 2. humans die of a great many causes beyond cancer (unlike lab mice), so dying of something else STILL means you didn’t escape to lifespan extension.

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Do you mean that it has been possible to prove that exercise can increases lifespan and that it’s totally impossible in the future to show that rapamycin can increase lifespan? This sounds very strange because when it comes to exercise it is much more complex intervention to study than when it comes to taking a pill.

Yes, just google all cause mortality studies and CRF/VO2 max.

Who ever said this??? This is not proven…but absolutely possible!

No it’s not, it’s VERY easy. Doctors all over the world measure CRF/VO2 max on people, cardio screening…and then follow these people down the road for decades. Guess what, those with high CRF live much longer. Of course, there can be healthy user bias/confounder, but It’s a SINGULAR biomarker that has been shown in literally HUNDREDS of studies that we now know it’s definitely true. No debate.

We don’t have this data on rapamycin in a large normal healthy cohorts over long periods of time. Biohackers just started taking rapamycin within the last 10 years, and everyone is taking a different dose, etc…there is NO control. Patients in trials for cancer/transplant, guess what, they are not a good cohort for longevity, so weak data signal. It’s possible that even without an RCT, in maybe 20-40 years, there will be enough people who have been taking “some” amount of rapamycin for a very long time that we can separate out a “signal” from a control population, thus showing/proving that rapamycin BY ITSELF is associated with lifespan extension. But there is no medical database, as everyone taking it is doing so off-label, the medical profession does not track such frowned open interventions. So it’s something anectodal for now, but maybe if sufficient momentum, someone will collate all these spurious data points.

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The reason I was confused was that I got the impression that you agreed with Bikmans statements when he said this lines: “There are no data whatsoever that has found a longevity benefit to rapamycin in humans. Not a single study, and, unfortunately, there never will be–you just can’t practically do this kind of study.”

So you agree with me when I said that it’s unlikely true that there never will be a study showing any longevity benefit when it comes to rapamycin?

When @Desertshores turns 125 I think we’ll know for certain that Rapa + exercise is life extending!!!

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So very true. Or as MB stated: “The time is now.”

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I’m 35, taking 6mg/wk since October 2021. Sometimes with grapefruit. Combined with diet, exercise and supplements I hope to prevent or slow down aging until the science catches up.

Anecdotally, I’ve seen a reduction in gray hair but possibly increased LDL and glucose, and low iron. I am tracking this monthly now and fixing through diet hopefully.

I recently added a 0.1% rapamycin skin cream to my daily routine, we’ll see in a few months if it helps.

All of this to say that I’m not waiting for a gold standard double blind massive cohort human study :rofl:

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You started the same month I did. At your relatively young age I think 6mg/wk is an amply sufficient dose. You have plenty of time to adjust later if the ongoing research indicates that some adjustment would be helpful.

BTW, would you mind sharing your source for the 0.1% rapamycin skin cream?

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Actually Exercise is not that effective in extending lifespan among the upper percentiles… in fact often centenarians exercise either less than or at most equal to their peers, Meaning its decreasing mortality in a way thats not truely antiaging.

Rapamycin on the other hand is likely to work in humans as it does in other mammals , similarly to protein restriction… thats why rapamycin works so universally. In fact most of the benefits of rapamycin overlap with restricting animal protein. High animal protein = short-term fitness and reproduction , when low = long term health.

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