Near infrared light therapy: Any experiences?

But you were referring to and making claims about potential benefits of such treatment with a LED panel/mat, based on research wherein laser is used - as a lot of companies selling these panels do. That is why I said it is comparing apples to pears (or oranges, if you will). I’m mostly taking issue, since these panels are commonly being sold based on these claims.

But then, as said repeatedly: we don’t have the studies that show the effects of using complete panels/mats with LEDs with high power density regularly for a long time over larger areas of the body. Even study authors say that caution is still warranted - as opposed to the companies selling these panels/mats.
I’m aware I’m keeping this discussion going also. But I’d love to be proven wrong - and see studies that do confirm the safety of using high amounts of NIR in direct contact with the skin regularly. At the same time I’m concerned that companies do make these suggestions, while studies are lacking. (Not in the least after having read anecdotal experiences that were disconcerting, but that I have not cited here since they were anecdotal after all. Fact is: we need the studies to be conducted).

Effects of IRA radiation on MMP-1 expression in human skin

“Exposure of cultured primary human dermal fibroblasts has previously been shown to induce MMP-1 mRNA and protein expression. To assess the in vivorelevance of these observations, in this study normal buttock skin of 23 healthy human volunteers was irradiated with a single dose of 360 or 720 J cm−2 IRA radiation (Tables 1, 2 and 3) and subsequently assessed for MMP-1 mRNA (n=15) or protein (n =8; 4 by western blotting and 4 by immunohistochemistry) expression. These doses were chosen, because they correspond to the dose of IRA radiation, which can be achieved in a few hours on a summer day in central Europe. Sensitivity towards IRA radiation, as defined by increased MMP-1 mRNA (>1.5-fold upregulation) or protein expression (>1.5-fold upregulation) was observed in 19/23 volunteers, that is, approximately 80%. As is shown in Figure 1a and Table 1, IRA responsiveness, as well as the magnitude of the response, showed marked interindividual variability. The latter varied from 3- to 14-fold upregulation, as compared with sham-irradiated skin of the same individuals. This variability did not correlate with skin type, sex, or age of the respective volunteers (Tables 1 and 3).”

" Materials and Methods

In vivo irradiation

All in vivo studies were carried out in adherence to the Declaration of Helsinki Principles and were approved by the local ethical committee of the Medical Faculty of the Heinrich-Heine-University in Düsseldorf, Germany. After obtaining informed consent, buttock skin of healthy human volunteers (n=32; non smokers, for further characteristics see Tables 1, 2 and 3) were exposed to a single dose of IRA radiation from a water-filtered IR-A irradiation source (Hydrosun 500; Hydrosun Medizintechnik, Müllheim, Germany). This device emits wavelengths between 760 and 1440 nm (Figure S1) without any contaminating UV radiation as controlled by means of a UVAMETER (Mutzhas, Munich, Germany) and a UV-Dosimeter Type II equipped with a UV6 sensor (Waldmann Medizintechnik, Villingen-Schwenningen, Germany). The IRA output was determined with a Hydrosun HBM1 (Hydrosun Medizintechnik) measuring device and found to be 105 mW cm−2 at a lamp-to-target distance of 40 cm. The IRA radiation doses of 360–720 J cm−2 were applied in 57–114 minutes; none of the volunteers experienced extensive heating. For sham treatment, another area of buttock skin was treated completely identical, except that no IRA was applied. Twenty-four and 48 hours after irradiation, 4-mm punch biopsies were taken from IRA- and sham-irradiated skin sites. Samples were snap frozen and stored in liquid nitrogen until further analysis."

Here’s a study on Omnilux’ Contour Face Mask (which uses LED lights), posted on their website. There are pictures. There’s a long list of studies on LED lights on their website. This is the first one on the list.

Omnilux Contour FACE Clinical Study Summary.pdf (3.1 MB)

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Imho: it is not uncommon that there are reliability issues when it comes to ‘studies’ conducted and published by companies that sell products/treatments and have a vast interest in these products/treatments.

As a mere example, and admittedly I’ve not taken the time to look into their ‘study’ in more detail, so this is a first observation. But look at the difference in the blue standard the face of this lady is resting on and note the difference between the two pictures (in color, in texture, in reflection of/on that blue standard). What can be concluded from that difference, when it comes to potential differences this pictures shows in the face of the lady, before and after treatment. My first guess is that at the very least there are significant differences in lightning between the two pictures. To name a mere example.

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@Pat25

Your points about this study are valid. Other studies on the list re LED only have summaries and not full papers. I don’t have access to databases that allow me to get full papers. In any event, there seem to be a lot of studies on LED. Whether they’re up to your standards, I don’t know.

I appreciate you providing the information about IR.

I think the concern about IR is heat stress. This may be akin to sauna. Sauna also produces heat stress, which at an appropriate dose, is good for you (increases heat shock protein, etc.). But too much of it is bad for you. There were cases of people dying in sauna when they stayed in there too long. Anyways, when I do sauna, I only do 15 - 20 min. Incidentally, I noticed that sauna made my skin better, which I attribute to increased blood flow to skin to facilitate sweating.

Exercise also produces heat stress. And too much exercise is also not good.

To limit exposure, all my red light devices have timers - 20 min for all of them except one which is 15 min (that one has stronger lights).

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I think you did a great job on the build. It looks good and the specs may be correct. I read the same book as Babster. He does spend a lot of time talking about intensity and distance and frequency. There is a lot to it. It wouldn’t surprise me if you are not getting the penetration you need to get a response.

This guy does a good job explaining how it could work:

Mechanisms and Mitochondrial Redox Signaling in Photobiomodulation

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/php.12864

He also talks about hormesis and the shape of the curve. I think it’s a good read.

Several years ago I got my first Sperti after reading Michael Hollick’s book “The Vitamin D Solution”. He was convincing that it is important to be exposed to light both for vitamin D but also for the many other things produced in the skin by the sun. But don’t stay out so long that you burn. The Sperti light will burn you if you stand too close. All I can say about this is that all my life I suffered from depression on and off and the light completely made it go away. I don’t know how or why and have not seen any papers about it.

Doubt it’s all in my head, but if a placebo works I’ll use it.

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It would be interesting to do pre and post testing/analysis of facial skin using something like the Visia scanner to see how much of a difference this Infrared Light Therapy makes (and if its a measurable difference).

I was just reading Nick Engerer’s blog entry on this were they used it to measure the effects of the OS-1 skin cream. It would be interesting to do the same test with the rapamycin skin cream people here are using.

It seems that a lot of “spa” type offices are using these scanners now, in major metropolitan areas:

I am not saying red light therapy doesn’t work, but I am wondering if the cost and especially the time spent in front of red light therapy lights are worth it.

If you Google “red light therapy, before and after pictures” and then click on images you will see many images mainly posted by the companies selling red light therapy devices.

It is obvious that many of the pictures are enhanced by different before and after lighting, some use slightly out-of-focus after pictures that reduce the appearance of small wrinkles. Some use slightly different angles to reduce wrinkles. No way to tell if some of these are just plain fakes.

I don’t think many, if any, of these pictures used the VISIA® Skin Analysis System.

My skin is already very good for someone my age. I have achieved this by staying out of the sun for the last ~40 years and have been using Tretinoin and Rapamycin for the last year or so. I noticed significant improvement from the rapamycin which essentially cured my chronic actinic keratoses problems. After adding Tretinoin for only about a month I started to see fine lines disappear.

Rapamycin and Tretinoin are really great if you have any kind of sun-damaged skin.

Yes, I have read many papers and purchased books on red light therapy and I have a photometer that measures the intensity of the light from the red light device that I use.

So I don’t think I am using my red light therapy device wrong or the device is different from what the manufacturers of the red light therapy bulbs claims.

Again, I am not saying they don’t work, but the effect is subtle and takes a lot of time in front of the lamps to produce any visible effect.

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The Omnilux study I posted earlier used the Visia system.

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JMO: Doesn’t look very dramatic to me. Red light therapy may work better for somebody that has a skin condition such as acne enlarged pores etc. But, otherwise, I say; meh when it comes to age-related skin wrinkles, etc.

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From using Eco Face Platinum, I notice that the skin on my face appears to be more even-toned, smoother, and the pores appear to be smaller.

I also notice that in addition to some improvements, the mask seems to prevent the skin from getting worse (such as more wrinkles). I know this because if I stop using it for a few days, my skins looks a bit worse. Yes, the effects are subtle. However, they may add up over a long period of time.

I have not been using my IR system, but I there is an argument for systems that improve a bit of health as long as they work synergistically. I take a lot of exogenous melatonin so that which I might get from IR would not really have that much impact, however.

Great idea! I don’t know where around here a person would go for this, but if I knew about it I would have tried. They probably do the scans pretty cheap. Followed by the sales pitch.

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Just do a google search on the nearest large city to you, with “visia scan” and you should find some skin spas that provide the service. It seems to be a service many provide for free as part of their efforts to upsell you to additional skincare services.

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Biomax 900, I use 20 minutes trunk, 20 minutes torso pretty much daily. Better sleep, no more cold sores on my lips. Redness around my nose pretty much gone.

I meditate pretty much daily so adding red light is a easy addition.

Check out https://www.alexfergus.com/ for more info.

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I thought trunk = torso. I’m not sure what you meant by “20 minutes trunk, 20 minutes torso.”

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Interesting paper. There have been many papers describing the negative drawbacks of fluorescent lighting. This is the first I have read about the drawbacks of LED lighting.
Of course, I have completely converted to LED lighting in my home.

"In relation to this, it may be significant that, while old domestic incandescent lighting contained significant NIR elements, none is present in modern strip lighting or energy-saving domestic lighting [12]. The absence of these wavelengths from artificial lighting may have long-term consequences. As longer wavelengths penetrate deeply, this may be of significance not only for the ageing eye, but also potentially for other tissues.

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Another example of one person’s red light setup:

  • This video shows my (low budget) red light setup. It cost about $600 to set up. The cost of the lights has gone up, so it would be closer to $900 nowadays… still much cheaper than Joov panels.
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Hi, Are your lights medical grade lasers?

Of course, they are not lasers!