Low free T; experiences with enclomiphene?

#1

I was recently diagnosed of having low testosterone. My main symptoms were: fatigue, 20 lbs loss of lean mass in 2 years, no muscle gains at the gym, despite lifting regularly. The lean mass loss was confirmed when taking a DEX scan earlier this year. Strangely, my strength losses haven’t been that catastrophic.

I’d like to hear about people’s experiences with enclomiphene. I am in my 40s, 18.5% body fat (previously 17%). Here are my lab results:

Total testosterone : 669 ng/dL , range: 264.0-916.0
Free testosterone : 8.3 pg/mL, 6.8-21.5
LH: 5.6 mIU/mL, 1.7-8.6
FSH :1.7 mIU/mL , 1.5-12.4
Estradiol : 26.9 pg/mL , 7.6-42.6
IGF1: 101 ng/mL , Z-score: -1.4, rage: 84-270
SHBG: 47.5 nmol/L , 16.5-55.9
DHEA-sulfate : 103 ug/dL, 102.6-416.3
TSH: 2.89 uIu/mL , 0.450-4.500
Free T4: 1.42 ng/dL, 0.82-1.77

Has anyone had any bad effects onenclomiphene? I often hear people say that enclomiphene is not a long-term solution, why is that?

One other area of concern is my low IGF1, which might explain the lean mass loss. It’s hard to retain, let alone build muscle, with IGF1 that low. I hear that enclo actually lowers IGF1, so I’m very worried that will completely tank my IGF1, which seems counter to building muscle.

At this point, I’m wondering if I’m just better off using a bunch of supplements like boron, tongkat ali, DHEA to boost free T and lower SHBG.

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#2

669 ng/dl is not low testosterone. Not sure if these results were from using enclomiphene.
I’ve heard some people say pituitary issues using enclo long term, but I really don’t know if that’s true.
People report other side effects as well and some opt for trt with hcg or whatever else.
Boron, dhea are good options. Tongkat, ashwagandha.
Lowering body fat % to around 12% might help.
Aromasin and dutasteride (or finasteride) is another interesting combo that can help raise testosterone and lower dht and estrogen.

#3

From my understanding, you should look at free T, not total T in some cases.

#4

It’s a little confusing as the title says “Low free T” but you said in OP “recently diagnosed of having low testosterone.”
Doctors usually diagnose by total testosterone levels for trt/hrt IIRC. Since injecting testosterone usually increases total and free testosterone.

I think all the things you recommended are good to try out.
Perhaps try the boron, dhea, whatever else.
Then separately try enclomiphene to see effects and/or blood work.
Then possibly try everything together.
If results are not super, perhaps consider trt.

#5

Try boron supplement to lower SHBG, if that doesn’t work explore other options to lower SHBG. That’s what is limiting your decent total testosterone translating to free testosterone.

I’d advise ignoring DHEA, it raises DHEA. Effect on testosterone is negligible.

Enclo can work but try this method first.

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#6

Hi qB, Good comments here. I’ll add that you re hypo thyroid with IMHO higher TSH of 2.89. Too bad free T3, the most important metric in thyroid function was not tested. IMHO dose NP thyroid tiill free T3 is near upper range and reverse T3 remains low.

I’d go direct to injected testosterone cypionate (??), 2x a week to even out the blood levels to keep spiking SBGH. Yes boron can / may help.

I dose with upon waking HGH secretagogs Ipamorlin+CJC+tesamorlin which boosts IGF-1. My last test went from your 105ish up to 257 post ipamorlan by 2 hours. I maintain this protocol M-F. Testosterone is for life. NP thyroid, 180mg, is for life.

I buy my own blood tests at lifeextension . com, I get the male elite

700 total T is per Std of care in range. Per health coaches 1000+ up to 1500 is in optimal health. FWIW weight lifters inject up to 4k T.

This youtube channel has excellent health tips that include peptide info but over all health info. IMHO the most up todate experimental drug/nutrical info is coming from a population who will experiment with anything and finds effective doses and compounds, the body builder community. True alot of what they do shortens life but they do know hormones and GH!!!

Hunter on testosterone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRWHwOEv7J4&t=312s

Your next problem is finding a clinic who will dose your T up to 1k+. And NP thyroid for your just under optimal thyroid. I like TSH << 1.0 and free T3 at the high range. T >> 1k is good to great.

The last conference I was at, the Seeds Peptide conf in LasVegas, mentioned boron to 20mg, higher then I was aware. I’m now at 20mg.

Female hormone ideal ranges was suggested to be dosed to TOP of range. No more min dose to alleviate symptoms. Including, especially T. Dose estradiol till FSH goes low, if its high, otherwiise top of range.

curt

#7

I can’t specifically give you advice, but your Free T, which is what we use to determine what to do is in the lower 20%tile, but isn’t technically “abnormal.” Now many men feel much better with levels in the top 25%, and I often treat for this.

Enclomiphene will increase LH and generally will result in an increase in Free T.

Most men on low dose enclomiphene tolerate this approach well, some have some side effects and stop. Gonadorelin and HCG are other common approaches IF you and your doctor choose to treat this “low” but not “abnormal” level.

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#8

Had good experience researching Enclomiphene, no sides and it tripled my T level in 2 months of doing 12.5mg daily.

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#9

Good to know, I will have this tested next time.From the numbers I saw, I assumed my thyroid numbers were in the clear.

This is something I was thinking about doing too. At worstI’ll get to keep muscle while losing fat.

That’s a high dose, I’ve actually seen several sources saying the limit for safety is 20mg. I plan to start in the 6-9mg range.

#10

Thanks, I’m weary of the symptoms of enclo like elevated E2, and eye issues. I’ve been prescribed an aromatase inhibitor just in case I get symptoms related to elevated estrogen. Does it only increase LH, or does it somehow indirectly increase FSH?

In your experience, what are the main side effects of Gonadorelin and HCG? Also, Seems like getting the dosage right can be tricky.

#11

So first thing, on elevated Estradiol - this is simply a function of increasing testosterone. Almost all testosterone in men and women comes from testosterone. This happens whether one uses injectable testosterone, HCG, Gonadorelin, Clomiphene, or Enclomiphene. The answer to this is either to let the testosterone run a little lower, or use an aromatase inhibitor.

LH increases testosterone
FSH increases sperm production

Gonadorelin increases both LH and FSH without any selective estrogen receptor modulation (like Clomiphene/Enclomiphene). Some people feel better on this, and some on HCG, some on a SERM like clomiphene/enclomiphene.

Clomiphene/Enclomiphene increase both LH and FSH. Their estrogen receptor modulation is felt to primarily be active on the Hypothalamus and increases GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hormone) which then stimulates the pituitary to make and release LH and FSH. Of note Gonadorelin is a GnRH analogue, so just works on the pituitary directly.

HCG is an LH analogue and as such once injected, just has the testes make more testosterone.

Enclomiphene off shore can be good quality or fake - one can see if their LH/FSH goes way up - if it does - it would be presumed to be real. Although, I think of the stuff that is real, most of it is labelled as enclomiphene and is likely clomiphene.

HCG is problematic - expensive on shore, sometimes with not being available. From India, most looks to be fake has been my experience.

Gonadorelin has oral and injectable options. Belmar Pharmacy (Odessa, FL) has a 500 mcg SL tablet that is cost effective (requires an Rx) but seems to do well either 2-3 times/week and costs <$10/week.

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