Studies are now showing that IGF-1 levels below 120 are significantly associated with risk of autoimmune diseases. Levels above 160 carry a very significant cancer risk.
The sweet spot is between 120-160 and this can be achieved with a total daily protein intake at 50 grams per day.
It’s interesting that IGF-1 levels steadily decline with aging and at 65 years old protein intake no longer affects the levels one way or another.
My interest is primarily health and longevity, so a protein intake of 50-60 grams per day is my goal.
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I also find it frustrating how Layne and Peter completely ignore the longevity research involving low dietary protein and/or methionine. I can understand if Layne ignores it because his expertise is bodybuilding and body composition, but for Peter Attia to ignore it just seems frankly like a strong bias. He’s a hunter who likes to eat meat. People want to have their cake and eat it too. We want to believe we can eat high protein, pack on as much muscle as possible AND have no downside to it for our health.
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Yes. I agree. I’ve said this before, but has there ever been a long lived culture or group of people that has protein as the predominant portion of their diet? I’m wondering if Peter’s bias here has to do with appealing to a certain audience. Makes no sense from a longevity standpoint.
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It seems confusing if you look at the conflicting expert views but if you really look at what protein is signaling it makes perfect sense that lower is better because protein is anabolic (it promotes biomass and muscle and activates mtor) while things that prolong life are usually neutral or catabolic (rapamycin inhibits mtor)… so really the perspective of more protein being good for long-term makes no sense in the context of the big picture.
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As MAC has proven, one can grow muscle without an excess of animal protein.
I wonder if a good strategy is to aim for zero protein for a few days around a Rapa dose to really enhance the mTORC1 inhibition. Then maybe the amount of the protein intake over the rest of the week doesn’t really matter so much.
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I guess I also hold a bias here but I think research like this is driving Peter’s views: Deaths from Falls Among Persons Aged ≥65 Years — United States, 2007–2016 - PMC
We are not laboratory animals, we need resilience against the challenges of our environment.
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This all lacks nuance.
(a) where are the high-MUFA, low carb, low-methionine diets? They seem horridly understudied because high-fat usually means high-saturated-fat, and MUFAs are WAY healthier. What if 70% of your calories cames from avocados/olive oils/nuts? [ALL which are associated with health benefits and none which are pro-insulinogenic)?
(b) Vegans might have more brittle bones, but there are ways around this (in particular - strontium supplements - see crsociety.org for recommendations). IN THE LONG RUN, making bones stronger is a MUCH easier problem than reversing aging caused by high-protein diets
(c) this also lacks context wrt dietary fiber and very heavy vegetable diets. It doesn’t contain data for the small percent of the population that goes very heavy on vegetables + MUFAs (aka me), but which might be the most important
(d) it also lacks nuance as to SGLT2 inhibitors/acarbose (if you include THOSE, then maybe high-carb becomes the healthiest again, but it’s hard to tell unless one has data)
(e) whole grains spike glucose too, and Casey Means has shown in her blog that even spikes above 120 are problematic. This can all be fixed with acarbose/SGLT2 inhibitors, but very few use these.
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Ok, but for context, I understand you weigh 100 pounds? If you are >5’2 you are ‘underweight’ on the BMI scale and so hold little to no muscle mass. In 20/30 years time your muscle mass will be lower still. That to me is concerning…
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Agreed we need muscle to help prevent falls/accidents/frailty as we age. I’m just hoping we can still get most of that muscle (while also further delaying aging) by following a low/moderate protein intake diet (or at least a low methionine and/or low BCAA diet), and most importantly of course, continuing a challenging resistance training regimen.
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Some good points. A great deal of data out there supporting MUFA’s and fiber.
Osteoporosis can be prevented by a large dose of K 2 per a recent Japanese study, and also by prunes, also a recent study.
Glucose spikes without the protection of rapamycin aren’t the same as with rapamycin which has been shown to protect against all of the end organ damage of diabetes.
I note that Peter Attia’s email and subject for today is “Are you eating enough protein?” Unlike some who commented previously, I think Attia does not let biases cloud his opinions. I am not saying he is correct about protein. I do believe he is intelligent, knowledgeable and believes what he says.
I don’t think the protein question can be made simple at this time. I think Dr Matt Kaeberlein is the information I source I have the highest regard for (and also probably our greatest hope of soon getting rapamycin properly studied for its potential longevity increasing effects on humans). I will never have the knowledge or ability to judge the value and validity of studies that he has. He tells me that the study results thus far do NOT prove benefits to low protein in people eating a healthy diet and life style. He does say that the studies seem show that for those eating a “typical western” diet and ignoring other healthy practices (and are below the age of 65) a lower protein diet confers better health outcomes. My source, this video 'Anti Aging' Diets & Fasting | Dr Matt Kaeberlein - YouTube
About 32 minutes in.
I think I can go by what he says. But, I have to admit I may not be totally objective. I want to find out that it is beneficial to eat more protein than Longo and the “super low” protein people recommend. As I have said the super low protein people seem very “anti-protein” to me. Example, Valter Longo, although acknowledging a higher need for protein in those over 65, recommends an increase 5 to 10 grams a day. That seems to me to be an incredibly small adjustment.
I’d like to know how much benefit (if any) I would get adhering to Longo’s guidelines compared to a bit more moderate eating plan. If it doesn’t make much difference, yes, I admit, I’d like to have a piece of fish or even a piece of lean chicken breast every day. I’d enjoy 80 or 90 grams of protein more than the 55 grams recommended for a person of my size.
I agree with and keep in mind what many longevity experts say – It is not a quest to get every last day of life possible, but, instead to get a favorable blend of longevity and quality of life.
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I too enjoy all of the arguments made by the experts. But the fact remains that every long lived culture, both now and in the past, ate a mostly carbohydrate diet. That’s a fact. All else is hypothetical.
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Really interesting talk, with a main thrust that isoleucine shortens lifespan via a range of mTor-mediating genes. But in the context of therapeutic rapamycin, would isoleucine have the same effects, or would the benefits of low isoleucine be minimal when one is taking rapa?
I read Attia’s email today, where he doubles down on optimal protein intake being 1g/pound of body weight (which for muscle growth in the context of intense resistance training, is probably true). It’s interesting to note that he mentions his discussion with Layne “dispelling the myth that extra protein causes cancer” but notably says nothing about high protein and the aging process itself. This seems like selective avoidance (whether conscious or unconscious, I don’t know).
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We know that under the age of 65 that protein increases IGF-1. Levels of IGF-1 over 160 are a significant cancer risk. If you keep protein intake between 50-80 grams per day, you’ll hit the sweet spot of IGF-1 between 120-160.
A gram per pound per day is very high and not necessarily indicated even for muscle growth.
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Thanks for that video! I’d really like to see a study where they selectively lower both methionine and BCAAs (or even specifically just methionine and isoleucine) to see if there are additive or synergistic benefits to health and life extension.
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Morgan Levine touched upon the issue of longevity diets in her recent Wired interview:
What is the secret to longevity?
Laughing my ass off.
Actually, longevity science says plant-based diet
is probably the best diet.
There’s a lot of evidence from both epidemiological,
which is the science when you actually look at populations,
as well as some more emerging clinical trials,
that suggests that a diet rich in mostly plant-based foods
can actually extend your lifespan and prevent disease.
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Thanks RapAdmin
Good stuff. The evidence is getting overwhelming. I don’t know or communicate with Peter Attia, and he’s not here to give his viewpoint, so I can’t comment on his take on proteins.
As an aside, I also get this occasional small rash since rapamycin. No idea what to make of it.
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