@adssx
I think it may be worth experimenting with. I don’t think 1-5 mg would hurt. @DeStrider found an immediate upside at 5 mg, while others are more comfortable with 1 mg. @desertshores is a longtime user and advocate. Of all the lithium salts out there, ororate may have the longest half-life, allowing low doses to accumulate in the brain. And it seems to have a significant number of life-enhancing properties. I’ll continue with my routine blood tests, but my physician probably won’t be involved in this experiment.
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This thread has been a fascinating read, thanks to @John_Hemming for starting it!
Leaving aside the mood and mental health benefits for a moment the protection of the brain and specifically dopaminergic neurons is incredibly exciting from a longevity perspective. Loss of dopaminergic neurons is a key limiter on longevity (not just for unlucky Parkinson’s sufferers) and if we can slow that it would be a huge benefit.
EDIT: Was trying to find the original article I read on dopaminergic neuron loss and aging years ago but couldn’t! An extract from this was similar though:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047637499000640
"Dopamine neurons in the substantia nigra of human brains are known to be selectively vulnerable and neuronal loss with advancing age was estimated to be more than one third between the age of 20 and 90 years (McGeer et al., 1988). There is a linear fallout of dopamine neurons with aging at a rate of 5–10% per decade (Fearnley and Lees, 1991), and the limited number of the cells causes dysfunction in cognition and motor movement. "
The point of the article was that since we have this consistant loss of dopaminergic neurons with age if we live long enough all of us will develop Parkinson’s. If you think about all the effort people here go to to avoid CVD (rightly!) there should be equal effort to preserve dopaminergic neurons in order to preserve our cognitive and motor function into old age.
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Thanksz. Any other things with this goal for general dopa/neurological longevity you think we should consider for our playbook?
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can you expand on that? and studies?
I’m far from an expert so take what I say with a grain of salt but a good book on general brain health and nutrition is Brain Food by Lisa Mosconi who is fairly unique in having qualifications in both neuroscience and nutrition. It is non-technical and easy reading with practical advice.
Regarding specific chemicals caffeine appears to have strong protective effects on dopaminergic neurons and appears to help with Parkinson’s also:
Low dose lithium is protective as mentioned here as are anti-inflammatory drugs generally although I’m not saying you should chronically take anti-inflammatory drugs!
There are quite a few drugs in development which I am even further from being qualified to talk about but many drugs developed for preventing or slowing parkinson’s will target the dopaminergic neurons.
There are mixed opinions on rapamycin helping but I have hopes everolimus could have positive effects but I am very much wait and see on that…
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Some argue low dose selegiline is the way. I’m skeptical.
GLP1RA work but are they pro longevity as they increase insulin? SGLTi and telmisartan seem very promising (see the first paper here for instance: Parkinson's disease - #109 by adssx ). Then of course coffee (and smoking, if you don’t mind lung cancer…). There are also papers around glutathione but I’m skeptical and, if true, GlyNAC might do the job better. Many people are hopeful that immunosuppressants/immuno-modulators could work (there’s an ongoing RCT finishing soon). And autophagy enhancere (ongoing trials of Ambroxol, soon Urolithin A…). See more: Parkinson's disease - #108 by adssx I think that’s all we know so far… (other than healthy diet, good sleep hygiene, stress management, physical exercise, etc.)
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I’ve been taking 300 micrograms of lithium chloride drops for a few weeks now and haven’t really noticed anything. It should be similar to lithium from other sources like orotate right? I was happy to find 50 microgram drops so I could adjust my dose up slowly and make sure there’s no issues and I didn’t want to jump straight to 1 mg which was lowest regular dose I could find.
Is that a measurement of LiCl or elemental Li? li atomic mass is about 1/5 of cl.
Answer:
Following your enquiry for the Life Extension Lithium, we have checked this for UK/EU compliance and unfortunately there is currently no compliance available in the UK, but this is not EU complaint as the ingredients are not authorised in a food supplement.
This is not a product that we will be looking to stock.
I tried to buy some while in Switzerland: couldn’t find it either. I’ll keep buying in France then…
Good state brand marked as serving side 10 drops: Lithium (from lithium chloride) 500mcg
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Sounds like elemental. Yes a really low dose
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@Josh
No, Josh, lithium chloride is not at all similar to lithium ororate or to other lithium salts used to treat bipolar disorder. The chloride is mainly used to produce a metal that’s used to make automotive parts. If I were you, I would stop taking it. You’re lucky you’ve been taking only microdoses.
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PQQ seems to boost cognition and memory
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People are apparently selling it as a supplement… I’m not sure the difference:
If this is what @josh is talking about, I’m not sure this is “Lithium Chloride”…
@Josh
If it’s approved by Consumer Labs, then it probably isn’t dangerous to take, especially at sub-milligram doses. But not all lithium salts are equal. Lithium chloride is more similar to lithium carbonate, the standard treatment for mood disorders, than it is to lithium orotate. Unlike lithium carbonate, however, lithium chloride is hygroscopic, which means that it absorbs water from the atmosphere. This may reduce its effectiveness over time.
Proponents of lithium orotate, including posters on this forum, say that it more readily crosses the blood brain barrier than either lithium carbonate or lithium chloride. It thus achieves a greater concentration at lower doses, a critical safety factor.
This paper makes a comparison of all the lithium salt formulations.
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What about lithium gluconate and lithium citrate? Gluconate is not mentioned in the paper and citrate just quickly discussed. They are the only lithium supplements sold in France (and maybe in the whole Europe, excluding US imports).
Are not all lithium salt supposed to act the same in the body? Why lithium orotate would pass the blood brain barrier easier than lithium citrate ? When dissolved it gives a lithium ion whatever the salt. It gives also orotic acid or citric acid, but why does that change its properties? I though only the absorption by the gut would change something between the different forms
Thanks!
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@adssx
I coudn’t find much on the gluconate, except that it was registered in France in 1961. It is still used topically to treat dermatitis. The citrate, though, has an interesting history. Up until 1948, it was an ingredient in 7-Up, which no doubt made it more refreshing. This Wikipedia article has a list of references for further reading.