Keto diet as method to prevent/slow cancer

I know the keto diet is very unpopular here, but there are some good scientists doing work on this. I came to this diet because I had cancer and was looking for a way to make my body less fertile for cancer growth.

In this podcast at roughly 11 minutes in, another scientist (prof Dom D’Agastino) different than showing that cancer cells shift from electron transport to fermentation which is why they need so much glucose and can live in a hypoxic environment, so why keto diet helps mitigate cancer growth/spread. He works with NASA to prevent space radiation effects and with the US Navy special forces for “enhanced performance”.This is basically the same as Thomas Seifried from Boston College.

At about 17 min in he says the perfect diet from his research to fight cancer is high fat low carb and roughly 25% protein (in calories?), a fat composition that is lower inflammatory so much more omega 3, and a high amount of prebiotic fiber (dark leafy greens, broccoli, asparagus) a traditional keto diet for epilepsy, but 2.5x the 10% calories in protein. He also supplements with exogenous ketones to get enhanced impact (catabolic effect to prevent muscle breakdown).

I understand this isn’t the ITP, but for me I see longevity as not getting cancer, CVD, CKD, and not getting Alzheimers/dementia. Also my healthspan is more important to me having seen my fayher wither away with sarcopenia, and multiple female relatives with Alzheimer’s. This diet seems to help is all of these except arguably CVD (higher LDL for some people).

So, again, I don’t give a rat’s hindquarters if you do this diet or not and I have zero interest making some tribal war about diet (yes, it gets frustrating with the useless arguing), but for those of us open to hear other (possibly useful, possibly not, but at least thoughtful and with real work behind them and confirmation by major organizations) viewpoints of scientists, this guy is one reason I personally chose this diet.

By the way: I’ve collected these links for a friend who now has an advanced cancer (she’s a doctor, and now looking for alternative methods to slow cancer progression when traditional standards of care have failed).

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Show the clinical, interventional, studies then.
They are not contributing with anything by speculating.

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Listen to the podcast attached.

That is not a study, link an interventional study.

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Sorry i just posted this podcast and am still listening to it — it’s an hour a a half. I am assuming you haven’t even listed to the ten minutes i pointed out. Are you familiar with Dom D’Agastino’s work?

The only way you can prove keto diet works as a method to prevent or slow cancer is with an interventional study.

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I’m not trying to prove anything. I could careless what you do.

@RapAdmin is there a block function?

Yup, the mice studies done on nutrition and aging show that a “low” protein diet increases longevity compared to a “high” protein diet, but high fat diets either have no or a negative impact on longevity.

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What I meant with “you”, is anyone, it is applicable to everyone and everything including your podcast person.

I clearly made a mistake mentioning the words “keto diet”. This podcast is on human cancer and human enhanced performance, and not on longevity. I have no idea if this guy even does mouse studies, nor if cancer mouse models are appropriate for these pathways.

So let me rephrase: here is a podcast on a researcher with sizable grants from NASA and the US Navy special forces who is doing research on cancer prevention and human enhanced performance. He is not doing longevity research. I don’t think he is doing mouse studies. He does work directly on humans but i don’t know if these are actual clinical trials published, or if there are no trials, or if the trials are classified. Maybe you might find it interesting as I did (I am STILL LISTENING TO IT FOR THE FIRST TIME).

If you’d like to simply make statements either way about diets, I kindly ask you to start your own thread on it so you don’t chase away people who might be interested in this topic or podcast (both critical and positive). I’d frankly love for people to poke holes in D’Agastino’s research so I have a better viewpoint.

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Mice are little cancer factories. 90%+ of them die because of cancer, so if an intervention could “starve” cancer cells it would increase their lifespan significantly.
Maybe a keto diet (or low carb diet) could potentially make some forms of cancer more susceptible to traditional radiation therapy but we lack (human or animal) studies in that regard.

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@AnUser , whoa! another new avatar (or do you have it set to “slideshow” now?) Maybe this is a new level of incognito for the agents tracking you?
Maybe you could get plastic surgery…or wait…@Neo might know a specialist in the underground that can do a head transplant.

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Here’s another research/practrice reason I have chosen to “live my life the way I current have chosen”. (Again, please remember that I have already had cancer, so my choices may be different from yours.)

Thomas N. Seyfried
Professor of Biochem
Boston College

He has developed a protocol with good results to defeat advanced cancers using ketosis combined with traditional chemotherapies. The foundation of his treatments are essentially “starving” the cancers of their fermentation processes.

Thomas Seyfried, Ph.D., is a biochemical geneticist, professor of biology at Boston College, and author of the groundbreaking book Cancer as a Metabolic Disease. As part of a lecture delivered on July 31, 2018, at the annual CrossFit Health Conference, Seyfried presented a report card on our current approaches to treating cancer in the United States. Looking at data from the American Cancer Society on cancer incidence and deaths per day between 2013 and 2017, he noted death rates are actually on the rise. “The more money we raise for cancer, the more cancer we get,” he observed. “So you have to ask, ‘What is going on here?’ … This is a failure of monumental proportions.”

The reason for the failure “has to do with a fundamental misunderstanding of what the nature of this disease is,” he explained. “We’ve been led to believe that this is a genetic disease, and I’ll present evidence to say that it’s not.”

The belief that cancer is a genetic disease associated with somatic mutation has become dogma, Seyfried explained, and this dogma shaped much of the cancer research and treatment protocols of the twentieth century. So-called cutting-edge treatments, such as personalized therapy and precision medicine, are based on this viewpoint.

Unfortunately, the viewpoint is wrong, as Seyfried explained in “Cancer as a Mitochondrial Metabolic Disease,” an article published in Frontiers in 2015. There, he aggregated existing research on cancer and reevaluated the information in light of the two competing theories on the origin of the disease (i.e., cancer as a genetic or metabolic disease).

The research he surveyed supported Otto Warburg’s theory that cancer develops as a result of disturbed energy metabolism. Seyfried and his colleagues compared nuclear-cytoplasmic transfer and mitochondrial transfer experiments and found that the mitochondria are “calling the shots, not the nucleus,” which is “the opposite of what we would expect if this were a genetic disease,” he explained.

Seyfried then described what he and his colleagues believe is the missing link in Warburg’s theory. Normal healthy cells derive energy from oxidative phosphorylation. Cancer cells, on the other hand, get energy through fermentation. What Seyfried and his colleagues discovered — and what Warburg did not know — is that cancer cells can ferment not only lactic acid but amino acids as well. That is to say, cancer cells can derive energy for proliferation from glucose and glutamine. Thus, to remove a cancer cell’s energy source, one has to remove its access to fermentable fuels, and an effective way to do this, Seyfried found, is through calorie restriction and ketosis.

Calorie restriction and ketosis, he explained, are anti-angiogenic, anti-inflammatory, and pro-apoptotic. “No cancer drug is known that can do this without toxicity,” he said. He then added that those who claim they don’t understand the mechanism by which calorie restriction and ketosis work are full of “bullshit.” “They don’t read the literature. Nor do they contribute to it,” he said.

Seyfried’s cancer research, particularly on aggressive forms of cancer such as glioblastoma multiforme (GBM) and other stage 4 cancers, led to his development of a glucose-ketone index calculator and the press-pulse therapeutic strategy. The calculator helps patients monitor their progress toward therapeutic ketosis. The press-pulse method pairs press therapies, such as following a keto diet while taking ketone supplements and practicing stress management, with pulse therapies, such as taking glucose and glutamine inhibitors while undergoing hyperbaric oxygen treatments. During his presentation, Seyfried explained how and why these methods are more effective for cancer patients than traditional standard of care.

“GBM and other stage 4 cancers — I don’t consider them as terminal cancers,” he said.

To read a full transcription of the presentation, click here.

CrossFit® - Forging Elite Fitness® (https://www.crossfit.com/ (YouTube)
)

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And I believe people who think they have the scientific hubris to believe they’re Laplace’s demon, able to predict things in complex systems for complex diseases without randomized controlled trials, are full of bullshit.

https://biochemical-pathways.com/#/map/1

I am changing my mind on this post, so deleted.

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Not with me :wink:
I’ve had great success with a keto diet (although modified by adding resistant starch, e.g., potato starch and/or plantain flour).
I also find myself returning to it when ever things start to drift away from optimal.

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Seyfried is brilliant and has important things to add. Keto diet works great for me even though I don’t do it right, probably should call it low carb. I also believe in using exogenous ketones or MCT and use it daily now.

Was it yesterday somebody was asking about important books to read? I completely forgot “Tripping over the Truth” by Travis Christofferson, MS with the foreword written by Dom D’agostino. I hope you read this one, Eric since it is entertaining and very informed as well. Another one by the same author is “Ketones, the Fourth Fuel”. I read these both before doing the ketosis and losing the 30 lbs. I’m absolutely certain this has extended my healthspan. I feel great and am pretty sure I can do more pushups than Fahy.

The experiments @AnUser wants cannot be done on humans for their every meal to determine the length of each of our lives. He’s just making noises.

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Or you can’t understand what is being said so for you it is perceived that way.

Thanks, @Bicep . I know Seyfried used exogenous ketones for cancer treatment, but hearing Dom D’Agastino uses them daily/weekly was a surprise to me. I’m reticent to start any extra supplements — and especially medication — until I’ve maxed out the impact of lifestyle. You use exogenous ketones? Did you write about this anywhere I can read?

Promising Effect of a New Ketogenic Diet Regimen in Patients with Advanced Cancer

I found this study fascinating - I for one would seriously consider giving the diet a go were I faced with an advanced cancer such as those here.

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