Can’t really agree. Most very old patients of mine are feeling good both mentally and physically, and have been disease free for most of their lives. For them, it’s not a gradual decline, bot more like feel great and then , somewhere near the end of their life, often between 95-100, they fall off a cliff.
Feeling like your healthy and young, and thinking that you’ll live to a ripe old age in good health, are in my opinion more accurate than any biomarkers, including epigenetic clocks.
I’m also not aware of anti aging interventions that make you feel worse. Certainly rapamycin doesn’t fit.
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You apply this logic/rationale to cancer as well? By the time you’re symptomatic, it’s often way too late to intervene and think you’re going to “escape” to an extended lifespan?
You’re “most very old…95-100” represents the escapers, not the vast majority of the population at risk! These people had the good “fortune” to bypass major illness, unless you tell me they all did some unique proactive interventions? If so, please share.
The rest of us 99.9%, we’re wondering if we’re going to make the great escape?
I say the risk to longevity attainment is to do NOTHING. Why are people here on this forum?
I have no idea what, if any, of my interventions are going to allow me to escape chronic illness. My philosophy…there is no do over, I am enjoying myself immensely on this planet, why not take it to the max and do everything within my sphere of motivation. My n=1.
My 50 yr old brother in law, super fit, professional athlete younger, started to feel “something” in his rear back. I believe ultrasound was inconclusive, CT showed “something” of concern. So they opened him up, stage 4 NET metastatic cancer to the liver, removed major part of the large colon, ileum, lymph nodes, and liver. This started primary site, ileum, many years before.
They did another CT, didn’t see anything. He qualified for a clinical radionuclide PET scan trial, very specific for NET cancers at the cellular level. They found two more spots in his liver.
We will never know why he got cancer…a drinker, big smoked red meat eater. We will never know.
There are FDA approved radionuclide PET scans for prostate cancer as well. I am getting one of these. I just don’t want to “miss” something. At 57, if anything lights up, my chances for curation are far higher.
Cancer is silent and indolent, you need to (again, this is ALL in the context of maximizing longevity) get way ahead of it with best tools available.
My dad at 57 (my age), Gleason Score 7, PSA 8, T2 cancer palpable bump.
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Yes on the first…the second is a fools goal…you be afraid of death, you’ll die a bit more every day…
the stress that is wrought with this constant need to check every molecule will kill you quicker than a bottle of good Irish whiskey each week…
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Yeah, don’t misunderstand me, I think that prevention and early detection of cancer are absolutely essential. And yes, you can do everything right and still get cancer.
My main point here is that I don’t think that an anti aging regimen will result in a lessening of health span. Quite the opposite. Rapamycin works by delaying age- related diseases and thereby greatly improving health span along with lifespan…
I stand by my observation that most old people have escaped major illnesses, either by behavior, luck, or flat out good genes. They tend to feel very good even late into old age- often without any particular interventions.
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Much to my dismay Dr. Matt Kaeberlein said in an interview with Dr. Peter Attia there is no such thing as a healthy 65 year old - functional decline (atherosclerosis, arthritis - aches and pain, slower recovery, weight gain, memory loss, hearing and vision loss, skin integrity loss, muscle and strength loss… etc.). We have to stop saying that there are healthy 65 year olds. As I thought about it - regretfully it is true. When you have these diminished areas it is very obvious… to then have these reversed - in my case every single one of these - is like a gift back of a decade or more. Having had a taste and been there - I want to do everything to slow the aging process. Sure we will all die, but to gain back 10-20 “healthier” - active years to procrastinate death a bit. And, age at a slower pace without the disease and illness that starts when you hit 60.
I am sure the effects of rapa have a lot of cross over with most people. But, I believe if you were already watching and maintaining good weight and exercising regularly - it might show up stronger and faster in you. For me, the many areas it has tweaked and improved is miraculous. Now just have to avoid getting run over or doing something stupid that kills me. LOL
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yeah, like worrying yourself to death about the 17th cell from the left of your spleen…
I think you have it pretty well put…health is relative…65 year old people are not all the same (actually no one is at any age)…so get better if you are good and pull yourself up a bit (or a lot) if not…
read up on the very really and proven effects of mental attitude towards aging/health and you see what a good life really means…
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Not seeing that though I admire Matt very much. I was a medical director of a large nursing home/ independent living facility. Many of them were very sharp and in excellent health. Running marathons even. I’m 67 and have absolutely none of those things he’s talking about. If they’re sub clinical- who cares.
I did a Prenuvo scan last month. It’s $2500 in Vancouver for a full body scan. Excellent images, a 10 page radiologist report (with images of the things they flagged), and an app where you can go thru all of the images on your own. GREAT peace of mind knowing there’s nothing weird growing inside…
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@ Russ_Mortensen
Thanks for sharing! I assume for prevention?
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The way I interpret MK words about “no healthy 65 year old” is different…could be said about a 50 YO as well…or as we see some of the possible reversible conditions with rapa in disease states…a 40 YO is that age brings with it some issues, even to people seen as healthy and rapa can tune those up and out…
I believe he is trying to make the point that you don’t have to be in deep shit to start shoveling…or better yet as the Gunslinger’s Da told him…“pray for rain but keep on digging the well”…
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Some would say that the first is a fools goal too and living for the moment and maximizing enjoyment is all that matters, some say its dying everyday not to indulge in sweets and fried foods.
So the same argument can be made against the first by those not into longevity.
Furthermore what if the technology or science to drastically counteract aging happens within that remaining amount of time a person has left in that case the payoff is huge for those difference in extra years. Everyone takes a slightly different approach anyways.
When they find the maximum effective rapamycin dose in mice for lifepspan it will most certainly be at a dose that has side-effects as well.
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Exactly - “pray for rain but keep on digging the well”.
And, why live 10-years longer if you are not in the minute now. Very conscious of the time on health which means time away from family and interests. So that time spent in a gym is a big commitment of time not free - you could be doing something else. But, if you’d just be on your phone or internet - might as well do that too - while working out in the gym.
I like the good health feeling that rapa and exercise bring me. It will be interesting to see what we will be saying at 80 years on this forum.
As to Matt’s comment in context, “no such thing as a healthy 65 year old” he was talking about human clinical test of mid-life persons up. His frustration was that clinical trials are difficult to get approval for because the FDA’s and Center for Drug Evaluation and Research (CDER) wouldn’t allow clinical testing on healthy persons - with a drug like rapa. His idea that persons at this age are in functional decline so calling them healthy is not truly correct. So something that might help prevent bad effects of aging and provide more productive years is worth a study. And, side effects are nominal and typically hit the few - not the many on it.
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Excellent information. I’ve been hesitating because the test is highly sensitive, but surprisingly the false positivity is very low ( unlike PSA and mammograms). The specificity must be pretty good as well.
If you can get past the anxiety of the first test , you’re in business. Then you get it every few years, or switch off to liquid biopsies if you prefer, and you’ll catch everything early.
Even the deadly pancreatic can take 6 years to grow prior to metastasis.
You’ve definitely made me consider this, especially when they set up in Florida or New York.
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Yeah, just getting a baseline as I get into my early 50’s. Did some InsideTracker bloodwork too. I have lots of cancer in my family and wanted some peace of mind 
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Looks like they’ve got one coming in Boca…
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It’s always smart to use family history to focus your efforts. I don’t really have rCVD or dementia in the family but definitely cancer. Luckily, most of the recent evidence shows that heredity only accounts for 10% of cancer. The rest is modifiable.
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We’ll, Matt’s right about that. Aging isn’t recognized as something that needs to be cured. That’s starting to change I think.
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That is Matt’s point exactly – if aging and chronic disease is accepted as normal and inevitable; then, why change the system. It’s not broke - haha!
Imagine all those pharmaceutical company’s bottom line if people are healthier longer - without these medications. Seems there is a new drug - with some odd name on cable TV every day for this or that. The identified potential side effects (unlike rapa - minimal or none) are horrible. LOL
Questioning what is health and how to improve it should be the focus.
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Aging is inevitable. Chronic disease is not (or can be pushed back).
That’s the key is making this believable (and fundable). Those two terms always get mixed up.
Healthspan, not lifespan is the key. The former will very likely positively affect the latter (and be welcomed), but the latter without the former is not such a great thing and not as likely to happen.
Speaking of cancer prevention, here’s some evidence of the value of combining vitamin D , omega 3 and exercise. Toss in some rapamycin.
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