When I started with Alan Green 5 years ago, I was very skeptical. I had exercised daily for most of my life and had never taken a medication for any reason. We started at just 3 mg per week and I have to say that after 3-4 months I felt GREAT. My stamina improved markedly and I felt generally younger. No doubt about it . The benefits, as you say , were substantial.
It’s probably not realistic to continue to see improvements, but there are occasions when drug holidays kick the effects back in gear again. Don’t get me wrong, I still feel good at 67. Apparently my eyes are that of a 40 year old and I can still play basketball and hike with my 30y/o son. I’m not complaining, but I’m like that addict that wants that original feeling back.
But Rap, your arguments are strong ones and they’re swaying me to continue taking it.
Thanks
There is also the argument that rapamycin can help lower longterm risk of many different cancers… which is perhaps the biggest risk we all face as we get older. It seems likely that ongoing use of rapamycin will help reduce this risk, at least from the papers I’ve seen.
I am just starting…9 weeks…but have thought of when I might stop or pause as some of the protocols do. Kind of do not think I will do either. The safety profile and history of rapa seems good and we know half life and how to adjust dose to keep trough levels low.
I have not had my bloodwork done and will have it done at my regular physical in 2 months. If nothing seriously amiss I will not test again for another year. if something jumps I will do as needed. But to solve a problem not to track month to month. I think blood work is great, but not the be all and end all that some think. I like my Doc because he thinks through them and me and its sometimes a compromise…
I think assessing the specific anti-aging effect are very difficult…near impossible and certainly looks even more complicated by the range of dosing that rapa appears to have positive effects on health related issues. For certain, if you are taking 8 mg weekly and seeing results in obvious health parameters would 20 mg be even better and reach some hidden ones that are less obvious and maybe not even picked up by pretty intensive blood work? Very possible but I can live without that.
For me (and everyone is different…goal wise and “reaction to rapa” wise) I am here primarily to improve health parameters…care a lot less about ultimate aging extension. I have no major known health problems…but do need to lose 20 lbs., deal with allergies, have some periodontal issues, and old man aches and pains. These are my markers and I do not need blood work to all me if I am getting there. Easy to measure. Logic tells me that if rapa deals with these it is working s I am not radically changing my lifestyle or taking stacks of supplement or drugs. OK, maybe not working hard enough to scare everything away, but likely will extend age because those things I can measure help people live longer. So, in time I may increase dose just as insurance, but unless something is shown with real data, not individual self measurement and amateur vodoo analysis I probably will not. I might miss out on a few years. But then again, maybe I get knocked down by a stoke or a bus and I don’t get my rapa money back.
So far I see some help in some benign facial skin lesions, a few less aches and pain (this one could be a mind-fuck too), and the biggest…just seen 3 days ago… a much diminished pollen allergy. Dramatic…just like on/off switch. From a 9 on 1-10 scale to a 3. And this is peak allergy season are (11.5 on 12 point scale). no big energy changes or weight effects…I am told by folks on here to see some weight help in another month. My dentist is monitoring a perio problem and while that seems to be stable too soon to tell.
Can you see if you have a cancer inside of you?
And if NOT, awesome. The genetic lottery, lifestyle, Rapamycin?
Cancer scares me the most…I can exercise for both CVD and brain health benefit, but how can I change gene expression to improve DNA repair, or inhibit wonky proliferation, or improve autophagy?
Of course you cannot see cancer inside of you…mostly. But even if you could spot it today it could be lurking beyond detection and kill you in a short time.
I agree rapa is the way to go, but is 10 mg a day enough or is 45? I think that is the real issue for people who believe it works, not all or none or all the time or never.
At this point in time you are seeking too much from anything and worrying about something you really cannot solve with the tools at hand.
Agreed, cancer scares me the most also. I’ve seen far too many patients die from it. Also, I got a zero on a coronary calcium score which put my mind at ease on that one.
In that vein, I heard a Peter Attia podcast a few years ago on a cancer screening device called Prenuvo.
It’s an MRI advanced technology that picks up cancer as small as 1 cm. Very curable even for pancreas/ lung/ ovary, etc.
Wow…price is certainly reasonable.
I am going to dig a bit and check it out.
Now I can worry about not getting one. Always something.
Haha. Yeah, that comment is priceless. Always something.
Here’s another potential cancer screening test to consider:
@ rivasp12
Thanks for sharing the Prenuvo link, sounds like a great tool to do cancer screening! They have a site opening up in my area this spring.
MRI is generally not as high sensitivity/specificity as PET/CT, but uses no xrays.
If one is to live an extended lifespan, they must “escape” the chronic illnesses that most people die from in old age. This is how centenarians reach a 100.
Until we have magic pill interventions, prevention is critical. In cancer and CVD, if one can diagnose very early, the chances of a curative intervention are far higher, allowing one a higher chance of “escapism”
I’ve had a volumetric brain MRI, Coronary Calcium, and thinking about a PET/CT scan for prostate cancer this summer (and I can get a relatively very lost cost test done at an academic institution) They are generally prohibitively expensive outside the funded/insured system. My dad was diagnosed with Prostate Cancer at 57, and although his treatment delayed his death, it came with side effects, and he still passed at 79. His diagnosis puts me at higher risk, and although my prostate markers do not indicate anything untoward (Urologist on my care team), I am being proactive at 57.
@ brandy111
Another great suggestion.
“It’s able to detect about 50% of cancers in people ages 50 to 79 whereas our current screening only picks up about 15%, so that’s another 35%,” said Dr. Suresh Nair with Lehigh Valley Health Network. Grail says the test is also finding signals related to aggressive cancers that currently lack screenings, like pancreatic cancer. The Galleri test is available by prescription. It costs $949 and is not covered by insurance."
No doubt that liquid biopsies are the wave of the future in early cancer screening and detection. After prevention, early detection is most important.
@ rivasp12
Did you learn anything further about the Early Detect screening product?
No, but I’ll call them again tomorrow.
Congratulations Mac, it takes a lot of research and guts to be as proactive as you are. Prostate cancer drives me nuts because the studies are very conflicting and PSA screening is so controversial.
Prevention is always key and so I think rapamycin is very important . Maybe exercise. Maybe green tea. Maybe a healthy weight.
Definitely has a genetic component so you’re smart to not just ignore it.
Ten years ago my PSA was 3.5 and now at 67 it’s 4.5. I checked a free percent PSA and it’s 23.3 ( not bad but over 25 is ideal) . Also got a prostate health index score which is 34 ( ideal under 35). All ok but not great. FH of uncle with prostate cancer.
Now I’m contemplating MRI, which at Hopkins is pretty decent.
My biggest pet peeve is that prostate cancer , after biopsy, is given a Gleason score. The range is 6-10. A score of 6 is essentially a histology diagnosis but it really doesn’t behave as a clinical cancer. It shouldn’t even be called cancer. The designation just scares men to death.
Same with basal cell skin cancer. Worry about melanoma.
Cancer prevention is probably the thing I love the most about rapamycin. The evidence keeps growing. That, along with really good early detection, will soon make cancer preventable and detectable.
I think this is a trap that many may fall into is that they try to gauge antiaging based on feeling well, because its more true that someone can base health and fitness on feeling well. You can even base healthy longevity somewhat on feeling well. But if a person has a goal of extreme anti-aging then the wellness & health feeling becomes a very weak metric. Sometimes things that are antiaging make a person feel less well and even lower energy.
It all depends on what person’s goal is , is it decent longevity and health? or to extend life as much as possible (perhaps with the intention of future therapies that may grant additional anti-aging). The risks and sacrifices to each approach may differ.
Can’t really agree. Most very old patients of mine are feeling good both mentally and physically, and have been disease free for most of their lives. For them, it’s not a gradual decline, bot more like feel great and then , somewhere near the end of their life, often between 95-100, they fall off a cliff.
Feeling like your healthy and young, and thinking that you’ll live to a ripe old age in good health, are in my opinion more accurate than any biomarkers, including epigenetic clocks.
I’m also not aware of anti aging interventions that make you feel worse. Certainly rapamycin doesn’t fit.
You apply this logic/rationale to cancer as well? By the time you’re symptomatic, it’s often way too late to intervene and think you’re going to “escape” to an extended lifespan?
You’re “most very old…95-100” represents the escapers, not the vast majority of the population at risk! These people had the good “fortune” to bypass major illness, unless you tell me they all did some unique proactive interventions? If so, please share.
The rest of us 99.9%, we’re wondering if we’re going to make the great escape?
I say the risk to longevity attainment is to do NOTHING. Why are people here on this forum?
I have no idea what, if any, of my interventions are going to allow me to escape chronic illness. My philosophy…there is no do over, I am enjoying myself immensely on this planet, why not take it to the max and do everything within my sphere of motivation. My n=1.
My 50 yr old brother in law, super fit, professional athlete younger, started to feel “something” in his rear back. I believe ultrasound was inconclusive, CT showed “something” of concern. So they opened him up, stage 4 NET metastatic cancer to the liver, removed major part of the large colon, ileum, lymph nodes, and liver. This started primary site, ileum, many years before.
They did another CT, didn’t see anything. He qualified for a clinical radionuclide PET scan trial, very specific for NET cancers at the cellular level. They found two more spots in his liver.
We will never know why he got cancer…a drinker, big smoked red meat eater. We will never know.
There are FDA approved radionuclide PET scans for prostate cancer as well. I am getting one of these. I just don’t want to “miss” something. At 57, if anything lights up, my chances for curation are far higher.
Cancer is silent and indolent, you need to (again, this is ALL in the context of maximizing longevity) get way ahead of it with best tools available.
My dad at 57 (my age), Gleason Score 7, PSA 8, T2 cancer palpable bump.
Yes on the first…the second is a fools goal…you be afraid of death, you’ll die a bit more every day…
the stress that is wrought with this constant need to check every molecule will kill you quicker than a bottle of good Irish whiskey each week…
Yeah, don’t misunderstand me, I think that prevention and early detection of cancer are absolutely essential. And yes, you can do everything right and still get cancer.
My main point here is that I don’t think that an anti aging regimen will result in a lessening of health span. Quite the opposite. Rapamycin works by delaying age- related diseases and thereby greatly improving health span along with lifespan…
I stand by my observation that most old people have escaped major illnesses, either by behavior, luck, or flat out good genes. They tend to feel very good even late into old age- often without any particular interventions.