I started on Sirolimus a few weeks back. I am 65 y-o, 180cm, 75kg.
I started very conservatively; 0.5mg/week, then 1 mg, then 1.5mg. Then I got to a 2mg dose. I was taking it on a Friday.
The next day (Saturday) I woke up with a very mild headache. I had breakfast and went about my usual activities but by lunchtime the headache was bad. I also felt very weak; shaky and slightly sweaty. My wife checked my temperature: normal. My blood pressure and pulse were also normal.
After lunch I began to feel really bad. Egregious! Terrible! The headache was splitting and I felt so weak I could hardly stand. Strange thing was, I felt really hungry and was not nauseous at all. I have a history of migraines and they always make me feel nauseous and I end up vomiting, so this was unlike a migraine. It was so bad that I considered calling an ambulance.
Finally, at about 4PM I started to improve and by 5PM I was feeling better.
Now, a non-fasting blood test taken in 2021 showed I have a very low insulin level: 2 MI/L.
My fasting glucose level is typically about 4.5. However, if I do hard physical work and donât eat regular meals I can get âhypoââŚI have all the symptoms of low blood glucose (weak, sweaty, spots in vision, headache etc).
I have a sneaky suspicion that Sirolimus may have dropped my insulin level so low that I was unable to utilise glucose, causing my splitting headache, weakness and hunger.
Just wondering if anyone else has had this reaction? Could it be that people who take higher doses of Sirlimus also have high/normal levels of insulin (20-30 MI/L??) and so they donât feel what I felt?
I stopped taking the Sirolimus after that. Trying to build up the courage to start againâŚ
Just an idea, but I wonder if going into a state of ketosis might help or indeed taking some exogenous ketones as a fuel for the brain when you take the Sirolimus.
Rapamycin has had zero effect on my insulin/glucose levels as far as I can tell. I currently take 20 mg every 14/15 days. The 20 mg dose is the only one that has adverse side effects manifesting as flatulence and mild diarrhea for a few days after taking it. On the plus side, the 20 mg dose is the only dose I have taken that produces mild euphoria for a few days after I take it. Everyoneâs body chemistry is different, I am sorry you had a negative experience.
No, took 6 mg. intially and over the first year increased it to 10. I was Dr. Greens 2nd. patient in 2017. It will be 5 years total next month. My Phenoage is 13.3 years younger than chronological.
Thanks to everyone who replied.
Iâm sure you all had no symptoms as I did. But perhaps thatâs because you have normal insulin levels to start with?
Anyway, Iâm back to 1.5mg/week now. Yesterday I had a meat pie and coffee at 2pm. By 5:30 I felt weak and shaky, so took a glucose check just out of curiosity. It was 3.5, so definitely on the low side. Iâll continue an see what happens.
I did return to 2mg Sirolimus once per week on Friday. I check my fasting blood glucose every Saturday morning and itâs usually 4-4.5.
I havenât had a repeat of the episode I described at the start of the thread. I am just having a month âholidayâ from Sirolimus during December.
My only suggestion to you would be to get your insulin level checked. You can have a fasting level or random (non-fasting) done. I would suggest the fasting level.
If you do, please let us know the results.
Best,
DrT
Aha!
As I suspected it looks like rapamycin has dropped your fasting insulin from 4.8 (which is pretty good) down to below 2. This is getting into Type 1 diabetes levels if Iâm not mistaken.
So now (like me) you can go too low insulin level and start to feel rotten.
So you might want to think about a smaller dose or having a ârestâ period?
My theory on this is that rapa probably drops everyoneâs insulin level but, if youâre someone starting with an insulin level of 28, then youâre not going to have a problem! In fact; itâs beneficial.
Yeah had my C-Peptine level checked too. And it is .82. Just above type 1 diabetes level. I am going to take a break from Rapa for a while. And if I come back will be at a lower dose. I wonder how many of us get type 1 diabetes from the drug. This is something to keep an eye on.
Many researchers i talk to think that blood glucose disregulation due to rapamycin is not an issue and that your blood glucose levels will return to your normal level.
My opinion is that this is probably true (all the people doing periodic fasting dont seem to get diabetes more frequently and the mammal studies show no long-term issues) but i donât think we have conclusive data yet.
Please test again at some point and post results.
See these documents below
Rapamycin (Sirolimus) slows aging, extends life span, and prevents age-related diseases, including diabetic complications such as retinopathy. Puzzlingly, rapamycin can induce insulin sensitivity, but may also induce insulin resistance or glucose intolerance without insulin resistance. This mirrors the effect of fasting and very low calorie diets, which improve insulin sensitivity and reverse type 2 diabetes, but also can cause a form of glucose intolerance known as benevolent pseudo-diabetes. There is no indication that starvation (benevolent) pseudo-diabetes is detrimental. By contrast, it is associated with better health and life extension. In transplant patients, a weak association between rapamycin/everolimus use and hyperglycemia is mostly due to a drug interaction with calcineurin inhibitors. When it occurs in cancer patients, the hyperglycemia is mild and reversible. No hyperglycemic effects of rapamycin/everolimus have been detected in healthy people. For antiaging purposes, rapamycin/everolimus can be administrated intermittently (e.g., once a week) in combination with intermittent carbohydrate restriction, physical exercise, and metformin.
Fasting and rapamycin: diabetes versus benevolent glucose intolerance
Metabolic consequences of long-term rapamycin exposure on common marmoset monkeys (Callithrix jacchus)
Rapamycin has been shown to extend lifespan in rodent models, but the effects on metabolic health and function have been widely debated in both clinical and translational trials. Prior to rapamycin being used as a treatment to extend both lifespan and healthspan in the human population, it is vital to assess the side effects of the treatment on metabolic pathways in animal model systems, including a closely related non-human primate model. In this study, we found that long-term treatment of marmoset monkeys with orally-administered encapsulated rapamycin resulted in no overall effects on body weight and only a small decrease in fat mass over the first few months of treatment. Rapamycin treated subjects showed no overall changes in daily activity counts, blood lipids, or significant changes in glucose metabolism including oral glucose tolerance. Adipose tissue displayed no differences in gene expression of metabolic markers following treatment, while liver tissue exhibited suppressed G6Pase activity with increased PCK and GPI activity. Overall, the marmosets revealed only minor metabolic consequences of chronic treatment with rapamycin and this adds to the growing body of literature that suggests that chronic and/or intermittent rapamycin treatment results in improved health span and metabolic functioning. The marmosets offer an interesting alternative animal model for future intervention testing
Thank you @RapAdmin. The hypothesis sounds correct, that the insulin and glucose levels mimic a fasting state. The hyperglycaemia symptoms are a drag, bit fatigued, blurred vision, needing to pee a lot.
One of the articles suggests if yo have pancreas issues rapa could make things worse. I am trying to rule that out. I had my lipase done. Seems okay.
I have been taking Rapamycin since March of last year, wouldnât my blood have returned to ânormalâ by now? I also wonder if doing the Agetron tonic almost daily with DMSO has caused additional symptoms.
Thats a good point. Another user here mentioned that he seems to be getting systemic absorption of the rapamycin due to the DMSO, so that could be a factor and could be increasing your effective dose.
DMSO is very agressive in terms of its absorption effects on skin, perhaps too much so.
We are all just working to figure this out⌠so I donât know if blood glucose levels return to normal in healthy people over a 6 month periodâŚ
After taking rapamycin for over a year at varying doses, all 5mg/week and higher, I donât see any significant effect that canât be explained by my diet or other factors. I think any changes by rapamycin on my fasting glucose levels are within the noise limit.
As you can see I have been borderline, probably due to my age more than anything for type II diabetes. My A1C level is currently 5.6% so I am still good there.
