Hmmm …I was two weeks into a break from Rapa (5mg per week+ VOO) when I got a bad dose of nose-streaming head-cold. That cleared. The next week I had some random loss of balance events…then extreme weakness in my arms and legs. After a bad fall (nothing broken, thank God)…I called an Ambulance. The para-medics immediately identified that I had a temperature of 39⁰.
The hospital found I had pneumonia. I was in there for 5 days while they gave me intravenous antibiotics. Hospital reckons the head-cold got down into my lungs). Day 6 home - all good.
Now, I had no symptoms of pneumonia…no cough, no mucus issues and I wasn’t aware of having a fever. I’m 74 and it’s my first admission to hospital in an unplanned way.
I have never had 'lung problems ’ before. I am rarely sick.
I had thought I was immune to Rapa’s immunosuppressive side effects …but apparently not. (Maybe it wasn’t the Rapa, who knows?) But I’m going to take a two month break now.
Is there any sound recommendations on cycling breaks…how often? how long?
Too bad. I’m sorry you had to go through all that. I hope you recover quickly.
Yes, it’s possible that rapa caused enough immunosuppression that you developed pneumonia, particularly that apparently it was bacterial pneumonia (based on your getting intravenous antibiotics).
That said, the timing is somewhat curious. It didn’t present while you were on rapa, but two weeks into a break from rapa. Of course taking a break from rapa should not have resulted in the development of bacterial pneumonia, quite the opposite, you’d think that stopping rapa would have allowed your immune system to come roaring back and taken care of those bacteria. But then again, a bit coincidental that you didn’t develop pneumonia all this time when rapa was supposedly suppressing the immune system, instead it decided to present when you quit rapa for a couple of weeks.
Hard to know what to think about this. Taking a longer rapa break is probably the prudent thing to do, perhaps this way you can see how a non-rapa impacted immune system is working, comparatively speaking.
It’s possible, but at the same time, lots of people get pneumonia. In fact, I’d guess that >99.99% of all pneumonia cases are in people who aren’t taking Rapamycin. My wife got a brutal pneumonia a few months ago, before she started taking Rapamycin. Started with a bit of a cough, and it lingered, raging fever, and eventually the shortness of breath, chest pain etc. The whole treatment course included 2 chest X-rays, 4 rounds of different antibiotics, some samples to figure out what bacteria and what drugs to use, and a chest CT to top it all off. After 6 weeks she still had some lingering pain from it.
For context, she is 30+ years younger than you, and not immunocompromised at all, so I think it can happen to anybody. I’d say that if you’re 74, got that sick, and pulled through, that’s awesome. Something like that could easily kill an older person, or a person with poorer baseline health.
It is also a good reminder that everyone should try to get vaccinated against pneumonia, especially the elderly. The new US guidelines recommend that everyone over 50 get the vaccine. There’s some nuance about the various vaccines available, as some new ones came on market in the last couple of years and more will be coming in the future, but get whichever one is available to you.
There’s some debate about for how long the vaccine remains effective. but getting it seems a nobrainer.
I got vaccinated last year before I started taking rapamycin. My thought was that just in case rapamycin lowers bacterial immunity, I’d better get covered.
So for people who plan on taking rapamycin, it makes sense to get all the vaccines you can, especially the respiratory, including against pneumonia.
Given how prevalent and dangerous pneumonia is among the elderly - I’m soon to be 67 - my preliminary plan is to keep reupping my vaccinations against pneumonia every five years, never mind what the official frequency recommendations are - I’m on rapamycin, so I’m not taking any chances. YMMV.
No way to know at this point if Rapa made you immunocompromised or caused your pneumonia. Also no great evidence for or against taking breaks.
In my opinion, your dose/frequency is too high. I doubt you ever go to zero Rapa level.
6 mg once a week is standard with little true evidence. With VOO you have no idea what your dose is. If your dose ends up at 10, with the long half life, you may never get to zero. Of course there’s no evidence that you need to get to zero.
I just think we are headed towards thinking it’s better to clear your system and 2 weeks might be better frequency?
Adding my two cents. While I highly doubt this was rapamycin induced immune suppression I would caution that taking 5mg WITH VOO means you have no clear idea what dose you are actually taking. Add in the variable of CYP4503A4/5 and you could have been on quite a high dose would could be immune suppressive. Moral of the story: know your dose and don’t try to cheat with VOO since you/we have no clear idea how high (or not) it raises the dose.
When I travelled in different circles (200 nursing homes) pneumonia was often referred to as “the old mans friend” as it kills a lot of bed ridden, compromised residents. It is not exclusive to the “elderly” or immune compromised.
Unless there is information that olive oil raises AUC of rapamycin more than other fats (like sardines, nuts) then I would assume taking rapamycin with 15g of fat from sardines should be similar to 15g of fat from VOO
Yes…I was under the strong impression from what I’ve read in this forum that VOO is a lot more reliable than GFJ in only increasing the effectiveness of a 5mg dose to about 8mg equivalent… And that it is a reliable small boost …unlike GFJ that can have a wide range of quite large boosts… It all leaves me somewhat confused now…
I also am still recovering from a bad cold and flu symptoms (e.g., fever of 102F) that began at the end of my 12 week rapamycin protocol. It’s been lingering now for a few weeks and I was beginning to wonder if rapa was maybe partially to blame. I’m currently cycling 12 weeks on followed by 12 weeks off and am about one month into my off cycle. I was also alternating 5 and 6 mg weekly dosage. The recovery has been painfully slow as I normally kick these things in a few days to a week at most.
I think you are right on there. You typically get about a 30% boost in bioavailability with a fatty meal, but I’m not sure how large the variance is with regard to different types of fat.
The other thing I’m wondering about is whether my new packs of Sirolimus (Biocon) actually have a stronger dose of Rapa in them… Maybe, but we’ll never know …