[quote=“Maveric78, post:19, topic:1168, full:true”]
The Mediterranean diet is widely considered the most healthy yet is NOT low protein (it includes moderate intake of fish, dairy, nuts, seeds and occasional red meat).[/quote]
“Total protein intake in the traditional Mediterranean diet is on average 20% lower than in typical Western diet (e.g., 90 vs 70 g/day), with animal protein consumption being 50 to 60% lower (e.g., 30 vs 70 g/day)”
That sounds pretty low to me, especially when Attia and others are recommending 1 gram per POUND of body weight daily.
I respect Peter Attia, but I also respect Rhonda Patrick and see her 2 year old youtube video “how much protein should; I eat muscle growth vs IGF” Spoiler: she doesn’t agree with him
Just watched the RP video, and I don’t know if he ever really got a straight answer out of her. She certainly didn’t give a specific recommendation on how much protein to consume. She DID mention some studies showing that high protein diets show increased mortality in humans, but that in people who are lean, exercise, don’t have other risk factors, that high protein causes them to have the SAME mortality as control group of people eating a lower protein diet.
Ok, but once again, isn’t this like saying it’s ok to smoke as long as you do cardio? Why not have lower protein (not necessarily “restriction” but not 1 gram/pound either) and do all of the other positive things?
"…dietary methionine intake is on average 40% lower in the traditional Mediterranean diet. This is important because in multiple model organisms, including rats and mice, dietary methionine restriction has consistently been shown to extend average and maximal life span, and protect against multiple chronic disease, in particular cancer ([80]. In rodents, methionine restriction improves glucose metabolism, protects against obesity and hepatic steatosis, and reduces oxidative stress. In addition, methionine restriction induces plasma elevations of adiponectin and FGF21, and reduces serum IGF-1, T4, and leptin concentration, which are all hormonal adaptations induced in long-lived rodents by calorie restriction as well ([80]
Not only methionine but also the intake of other essential amino acids, such as leucine, isoleucine, valine, and tryptophan, is 20 to 30% lower in the traditional Mediterranean diet than in the meat, egg, and dairy rich Western diet."
I mean at the end of the day I think it shows that other factors such as exercise and other morbidity risks(such as smoking, genetics, etc) influence mortality, less so dietary protein. In fact, I think the real issue is probably going to be sugar intake(such as fructose). I don’t think the lower protein plus doing all other positive things is going to make much of a difference in someone who does high protein and all the right things. I think you just stick to what works for you as a individual, if its less protein then thats fine, same as if its high protein. At the end of the day it seems making sure you are exercising and eating relatively balanced diet with low additive sugars is going to be the best bet.
I have no horse in the race as I dont really track how much protein I am eating , I more focus on making sure I just eat healthy and exercise.
[quote=“Guywholikessleep, post:34, topic:1168, full:true”]
I mean at the end of the day I think it shows that other factors such as exercise and other morbidity risks(such as smoking, genetics, etc) influence mortality, less so dietary protein. In fact, I think the real issue is probably going to be sugar intake(such as fructose). I don’t think the lower protein plus doing all other positive things is going to make much of a difference in someone who does high protein and all the right things. [/quote]
It doesn’t have to be one thing or the other. You can eat 1g/kg of protein per day, for example (fairly low but more than RDA) and also eat foods that are low-glycemic, and exercise, and not smoke, etc etc.
Amen…I concur exercise is by far #1 proven in humans, health-span/lifespan intervention. Superior Vo2max, lower resting heart rate, greater whole body skeletal muscle and functional strength, lower frailty index, are all correlated to enhanced longevity. The verdict on Rapamycin and other pharma interventions in humans is still out, but it’s very likely we will need to impact some MAJOR fundamental cell level pathway, pharmacologically induced, to significantly move the longevity needle.
I’ve got quite a database on diet/longevity, and if I had to characterize/summarize the “research”, it’s generally accepted that lower protein, via leucine/isoleucine/valine (key BCAA’s) area under the curve (AUC) signal, is associated with longevity. Reduced IGF-1/mTOR/senescence signalling are major pathways implicated.
CR delivers the greatest longevity increase in mice, superior to Rapamycin. Is CR simply a proxy for reduced protein signalling? We know Rapamycin is an mTOR reducer, a direct proxy for lower protein signalling. How efficacious is Rapamycin a higher protein environment?
I don’t think I’ve seen a study combining CR and Rapamycin. I would imagine there could most assuredly exist complex mTOR independent and Rapamycin dependent adjacent pathways with both CR, low protein and Rapamycin used in conjunction?
Doing true equivalent human CR (30% less calories) and by default, the accompanying significantly lower BMI, lower skeletal mass reserve, sounds like quite a new set point for most people, even longevity motivated. Layering enhanced resistance exercise to build muscle/prevent sarcopenia at older age would be paramount I would think.
Ketogenic and one meal a day (which I practice) is a lower protein signal. I started it (maintain ) primarily for the ketones/brain health, but have learned the combination has many other longevity pathways benefits.
All the long lived societies, what do they have common, lower BCAA protein signal, even though they eat very different macronutrient diets. Is it that simple?
We will never have all the answers, but the clock is ticking, so my thinking is to do simultaneously implement as many as practically/stress free as possible…there is no do over.
I’ve been eating a low protein diet for some time, with very stable weight (and fat % less than 10), however, over the last several months, I’ve noticed my strength is no longer increasing and my muscle mass percentage has been creeping downwards.
I suspect this is my body now telling me that I need to increase the protein intake which I’ve just started to do. It will be interesting to see if the metrics start moving back in the right direction. I’ll report back at a later date.
All I can suggest is that we’ll probably never know if protein restriction boosts lifespan in humans, however, if your metrics suggest you need more it might well be prudent not to ignore them.
I am not swayed. Anabolic efficiency goes way down with age. Stuffing more protein into a physiologically aging body that does not process it or metabolically needs it, does not per se, manifest in proportionally increased skeletal muscle mass.
As Blagosklonny wrote to me once “amino acids don’t build muscles…exercise does”. And as an add on “Rapamycin potentiates strength training”
The 2nd paper, the meta analysis, concluded:
“On a morphologic scale, our results showed that, in adults not purposefully stressed (no energy restriction + no resistance training), chronically consuming protein in excess of the RDA during an intervention did not affect changes in lean mass compared with consuming 0.8 g/kg/day. These results support that the current RDA is sufficient to retain lean mass, and that higher protein intakes do not influence maintaining lean mass when an individual is not purposefully stressed.”
IMHO, forget protein intake beyond basic metabolic need…resistance exercise is the fundamental intervention to blunt/build muscle to prevent aged related sarcopenia/frailty.
Exercise-mediated reinnervation of skeletal muscle in elderly people:
“Grouping and fiber type shifting are indeed major histological features of aging
skeletal muscle. Exercise has been proposed as an intervention for age-related sarcopenia due to
its numerous beneficial effects on muscle mechanical and biochemical features. In this short review we discuss the most recent advances confirming the occurrence of exercise-mediated reinnervation, ultimately preserving muscle structure and function in elderly people who exercise”
5 yrs ago, I was approaching 30 BMI, probably above average protein eater, would be hard to find much muscle on me. 5 yrs later, relatively low protein ketogenic diet (certainly MUCH less than 5 yrs ago and VERY low compared to the level of exercise I do), combined with daily endurance/resistance exercise, I lost 50 lbs, and have became VERY lean and muscular. The muscles are entirely resistance exercise driven.
Yeah i just found it interesting. I think exercise is definitely the most important aspect. I think if you are nailing the exercise component then diet is less of an issue(whether you consume more protein or not).
also i regards to diet. I actually tried ketogenic diet when I was at healthy BMI, and I ended up losing a lot of weight. I was a healthy 170 @ 5’11 and would eat a balanced diet, but tried Keto and I went to 150lbs in 3 months and felt very fatigued. Part of it could have been less calorie consumption then I usually did, but I have just found keto doesn’t work for me. I also was very active and that was when I was 20 so not sure what I did wrong. I thought about going to it again ( I am 24 now) just to try it, but I find higher protein intake fills me up more. I stick around 1g per Kg right now and am 175 lbs and no major health issues, so not sure its worth the change
