The problem with using any kind of supplement/drug/peptide for preventive purposes is how do you measure responder vs non-responder? Judging by “the feels” is often fruitless and confounded by the placebo effect. How many people are taking rapamycin for anti-aging purposes and don’t “feel” anything? Probably most, I’d wager, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not working or that the person is a non-responder.
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Like RapAdmin I’ve been looking into SS-31. The pricing by grey market suppliers selling this in kits of 10 vials seems rather expensive. This is a simple peptide molecule that should be easy to manufacture. I would expect pricing to be much lower if we could eliminate all the middlemen and source directly from a manufacturer. Testing of peptides is another problem area. I haven’t seen anyone offering testing for latent solvents which is the most likely contaminant. My research into dosing seems to indicate that 15-20 mg/day is likely needed to maximize results. The experience from the Barth syndrome studies seems to indicate it can take years for all the benefits of treatment to accumulate from reversing mitochondrial dysfunction. Put those two together and you start needing pretty large quantities to properly evaluate its effectiveness. So I’d definitely be interested in joining the group buy, quantity TBD based on pricing.
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Great video as usual from MK. HE is definitely emerging as the best no BS doc on antiaging field out there.
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To be fair to the other peptides LOL I have tried few of them, more like 15-20 and I never noticed any adverse effect (other than GLP1’s). My beef was that I didn’t notice any positives either (again other than GLP1’s and maybe one or two others), and some people on the web platforms were making it sound as if when you take them, you’ll have instantaneous benefits, especially with recovery and body pains and aches. That is absolutely not the case, and I don’t care who says otherwise. Clearly, I’ve heard MK and others now starting to burst that exaggerated peptide bubble. From my experience with peps for last three years and supplements for last 15 years, I am 100% in agreement with what MK says/recommends on both these categories. I am a bit more willing (than him) to venture into the unknown for some of the sups and meds. I’m not touching peps until much more credible evidence comes out for them.
FWIW, I don’t notice any different in body aches pains from SS-31. I do notice the differences I previously mentioned.
I also had a noticeable effect from rapamycin and many don’t feel it at all.
I wonder if things like these, even if they are silently doing good things for our healt, are only noticeable to those who have something to fix.
Rapa snapped me out of my lifelong insomnia, but if I didn’t have insomnia, I wouldn’t have noticed anything. I do generally feel significantly better since starting rapa, but I attribute that to the benefits of sleep.
If I didn’t have glucose issues or ADD, there is probably nothing I would feel from SS-31 either. Of course it could be placebo and I’m here for it!
I have no idea about the validity of this theory, but it makes sense to me. ?
PS neither my husband nor I am seeing any difference in our sleep from DSIP. I do sleep like a baby, but that has been happening since Rapa and then the addition of LDN. Because of that, he only thing I was looking for was an increase in my deep sleep. It’s the same… give or take an hour each night…
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Ditto to that, but I don’t sleep like a baby, far from it actually. Sleep is my only nemesis with regards to longevity and health, and I have tried everything under the sun, with absolutely no effect or some effect few nights and then still the same. I have some Dayvigo but haven’t tried it. I am still trying to stay away from the sleep meds and seeing If I can find something more natural to fix it. I can never sleep more than 5 hours uninterrupted, and I have to wake up and stay awake for 3-4 hours and then maybe if I’m lucky get another hour or so sleep in the early mornings. Last night I tried for first time Sibutramine 400mgs and did sleep really well for a nice 7;20 minutes uninterrupted but there’s a caveat that the night before was one the worst with only 4 hours so maybe I was supper tired and the good sleep (last night) had nothing to do with Sibutramine.
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I don’t think people are non-responders to SS 31.
If you don’t have the problem it address you won’t notice anything.
I had a significantly noticeable benefit the first time I ran the 10mg+10mg twice a day for 5 day evaluation. This is half the dose used for Barth’s
I’ve since finished a 30 day course of 3.33mg per day and have not noticed any “benefit”
My though on that is as my “normal” adjusts to issues being solved or issues creeping in, it’s harder to notice an effect. We get used to our normal, which with respect to aging is often changing very slowly. Only things that affect the normal baseline are noticeable as opposed to things that we can actually measure that we may not notice. As my BP reduced I didn’t notice anything, but I could measure it. As my cholesterol reduce with statin use, I didn’t notice anything, but it was measurable.
The way I check things I can’t measure, is to stop that thing and see how my normal may or may not change in 30 to 60 days.
Since that 30 day course ended I’ve been doing high dose MOTS-c twice a day, 5 days a week. Nothing much noticeable. Perhaps my mitos are doing OK.
Also I do 4 gm’s of NAC + 4gms of Glycine 5 to 6 days a week for the past 5 years, this is also a potent mitochondrial supporter.
Like many things, SS 31 can’t fix what is not broken. From the trials, it had zero benefit for people in the 30y range as they already have “good” mitos that do not have the one issue that SS 31 addresses… which is…
Core mitochondrial issue
- SS-31 is a mitochondria-targeted tetrapeptide that selectively binds to cardiolipin-rich domains in the inner mitochondrial membrane.
- By binding cardiolipin, it stabilizes respiratory chain supercomplexes (especially complexes III–IV), improves oxidative phosphorylation coupling, and reduces mitochondrial redox stress and ROS generation.
- Functionally, this restores ATP production capacity and improves cristae/inner membrane structure in models of aging, Barth syndrome (tafazzin deficiency), and cardiac failure, all of which feature cardiolipin-driven mitochondrial dysfunction as a central problem.
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Hoping to boost my GFR with SS-31, I took 25 mg/day for 10 straight days and my GFR went down by 25%. Now, my GFR fluctuates randomly and sometimes dramatically, so I can’t draw any conclusions here, except that, owing to needle fatigue, I’m not inclined to continue the experiment.
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Did your tests for eGFR use creatinine or Cystatin-c? It is my understanding the creatinine levels can have more variability based on diet/exercise etc., especially if you are supplementing with creatine. Assuming all tests were from the same lab. I am currently looking into SS-31 for improving my eGFR.
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Can you share the name of the vendor you purchased from?
Regarding needles, I thought I’d share my insulin pen update.
I previously mentioned I bought Savvio pens and I was having trouble pushing the plunger. That is no longer an issue.
My update is really about the needles. I mentioned I get a short-lived red itchy rash when I inject SS-31. @Davin8r taught me an injection technique that made a significant difference.
I was using 8mm needles, which are the size most commonly recommended. Most people say the extra short 4mm needles will often result in even more irritation (I forget the technical term). It makes sense because the product is closer to your skin.
Well, the supplier sent me samples and I gave the 4mm a try, and lo and behold, I’m actually getting even less irritation… exactly the opposite reaction that most would expect.
So, @Tim, if you haven’t tried a pen yet, I highly recommend them. I’d also try the 32g 4mm needles because I can barely detect them. That might alleviate your needle fatigue… nothing to dread.
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Super Panda Peptides, a new vendor selling on Discord and PeptideChat. $300 for 50 mg X 10. I have a vial being tested by Finnrick, but I was too impatient to wait for the results. I did filter the solution.
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I test my GFR every two or three months, always with creatinine, using both Labcorp and my local hospital. I don’t use creatine and I’m not a mesomorph.
GFR decreases with age, and the drop accelerates after age 70. I’m 78 and I have CKD, so this is not entirely unexpected.
You’ve never checked your GFR by cystatin C just to make sure it’s consistent with the creatinine-based measurement? I certainly would, for something this important. My cyst C GFR tends to run 20+ points higher than my creatinine-based GFR, even when I completely stop creatine supplements for several weeks and avoid exercise for 3 days prior to creatinine measurement.
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Now that you mention it, I did have a strenuous workout on the day before the test, a day when it was 60 degrees, the first nice day in four or five months and so I really pushed it. I was sore when I had the blood draw. I bet my GFR would be 10 points higher if I took the same test tomorrow. I’m glad you brought it up.
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Where do you inject yourself, Beth?
I’ve tried stomach and thigh and prefer my stomach. I’m not sure if it’s less sensitive or if it’s just about it’s a closer reach ?
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Beth, do you notice anything with regard to your energy levels when taking SS-31?
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