Estradiol as a cheaper/more accessible alternative to 17-alpha-estradiol in the meantime?

I wonder if the lowest dose estradiol patch (even cut in half/I’ve read estimates that you only lose 10%by cutting them) would be better than pills? I’m not a doctor- just a menopausal woman on the estradiol patch for the last 7 years but I tolerate it much better than pills that go through the liver first pass metabolism fwiw. I’m not sure if that makes a difference in males. The first person to help me with estradiol was someone transitioning from male to female who preferred the patch.

2 Likes

Have you looked at any clinical trials giving estradiol to men and the effects it has?

2 Likes

It can undo the effects of puberty and reduce sex drive and gondal size, but I’ve always detested everything and anything to do with puberty/sex and have always wanted to be prepubertal forever, so these are desireable effects for me

1 Like

It is shameful that we do not have good study data on the long term effects of hormones on human beings. Is estrogen supplementation longevity enhancing for post menopausal women? What about TRT for men? Some of that testosterone aromatizes into estrogen, and that is cardio protective, but what is the magic number if any. We are flying blind here, and this is absurdly low hanging fruit.

1 Like

:rofl: Nomination for the post of the week…

2 Likes
  1. the pills have no negative effect on my stomach for now, and i have no plan to turn myself into woman yet, just a time to time check in to keep my testosterone from going too high, at the same time, reap some benefits from fair sex hormone.

  2. No intention to take estradiol regularly for long term yet. My purpose is purely for anti-aging, even though eunuch live much longer, and high woman sex hormone may inhibit male hormone, kind of neutering a man, it’s not my plan now…

1 Like

Yes, if my memory serve me right, it’s the annihilation of the whole human race.

1 Like

:joy: Well, if it goes too high, believe me, reproduction becomes impossible.

1 Like

It’s the human nature to want to be forever young, not just live longer.

Eh, I want to look like a mid-20s adult man with strong muscles and thick hair forever. I don’t see the point in becoming a child again.

2 Likes

Reproduction cost you life. Eunuchs live more than 20 years than their peers.

The same to women, after giving birth, they aging fast.

This is not validated in mice. In fact, mice who train and/or reproduce live longer than those who don’t and at least as long as castrated mice. If you care about longevity, you should exercise, reproduce often and take 17a estradiol.

2 Likes

“And you, be fruitful and multiply, increase greatly on the earth and multiply in it.”

2 Likes

So do i, just we have different definition of how should a young adult looks like.

Never a big fan of big muscle, i was at college swimming team, my body was streamlined but no big strong muscle. Even at my 30s, i look like a high school student.

Many Asian women look like young kids, great skin care. Just different culture.

In dogs, spayed and neutered dogs proved to live longer than average, just don’t do it in their early age to totally cut off the growth hormone.

I think some of the benefits of TRT might come from the increased estradiol conversion

5 Likes

Definitely. Before TRT was one of the times my estradiol was way too low.

The other was when I still needed an AI and got the dose wrong.

Now I can sense when it’s just a little too high or low, almost intuitively. It’s very subtle.

This was tried back in the 1970s by the Coronary Drug Project. The high-dose estrogen arm was terminated iafter a mean follow-up of 1.5 years because of a significant increase in nonfatal MI and a trend toward increased total mortality. The low-dose estrogen arm was terminated after a mean follow-up of 4.7 years because of an increase in cancer deaths and a trend toward increased total mortality.

ERT even seems to be harmful to women if started long after menopause (seems largely beneficial if started early in the process).

The estrogens in CEE are neither 17-alpha nor largely estradiol, but it’s a pretty strong signal not to mess with this.

5 Likes

"The treatment groups included: low-dose estrogen (2.5 mg/day), high-dose estrogen (5.0 mg/day), clofibrate (1.8 g/day), DT4-dextrothyroxine (6.0 mg/day), niacin (3.0 g/day), and placebo (3.8 mg lactose/day)

“Our skin has various oestrogen receptors that help induce the production of collagen and hyaluronic acid which hold water in the skin. So the drop in the level of sex hormones in the menopause pushes a foot down hard on the ageing accelerator in women.”

This says they can suppress appetite, improve insulin sensitivity,

1 Like

I haven’t read this whole chapter, but it appears to be about the role of endogenous estrogen in males, not pharmacological estrogen treatment. Endogenous estrogen is also important for bone mineral accretion in response to exercise and for mood in males. That’s not a reason to take more of it.

3 Likes