DIY Rapamycin skin cream

#292

Those using DMSO don’t have to worry. Solvents such as alcohol, and DMSO are antimicrobial in the concentrations used by most DIYs making their own rapamycin lotions, sprays etc. Others incorporate it in commercial creams already containing antimicrobials.
Also Transcutol in addition to being a solvent is also a surfactant. Transcutol is not a medium for growing bacteria.
“surfactants aid in the killing of microbes that cause illness”
Rapamycin is antifungal

Bottom line: I don’t think those making their own rapamycin creams or sprays need to worry about it.

Antimicrobial activity of dimethyl sulfoxide against Escherichia coli, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, and Bacillus megaterium

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jps.2600580708

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#293

I would not use topical DMSO. I’d rather use ethanol or isopropanol, but most people would find that too irritating for use at concentrations high enough to be antibacterial and antifungal.

#294

@arugula
like i said i keep my concoctions in freezer when not in use.
i and most others use isopropanol and/or ethanol along with dmso and other surfactants, cosurfactants(of which isopropanol can also fit that bill), emulsifiers etc etc. And especially as in the literature if msm is used along with dmso it eases the undesirable effects of dmso esp as to odor(also while dmso may induce histamine release msm helps prevent it though it is rather strange since dmso turns into msm in the body) and if add urea it does even more. See the literature on how urea makes the skin much more susceptible to cortisone for example and other substances. Also benzyl alcohol, which i add to all my concotions, is a main constituent at 1% in many sterile water vials or only additional constituent in sterile water along with maybe salt at .9%

@LaraPo another quote from internet:

’ How long does olive oil take to absorb into skin?
…
In addition, extra virgin olive oil absorbs quickly into the skin and after 15 minutes there is no trace of it.’

seems internet is quite full of contradictions and disagreement which i have observed for quite a few years now on other subjects esp in the question and answer sections.

#295

Have you actually read this thread? Many people are using DMSO in concentrations enough to be antimicrobial. I prefer to use Transcutol as I find it more pleasant and has a nicer smell. In any case, I have been using it with rapamycin in a DIY spray for almost a year with no ill effects. If you have such an abundance of caution, I am surprised you are using rapamycin. IMO ethanol and isopropanol are poor substitutes for DMSO or Transcutol and are very drying to the skin.

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#296

Yes, I actually read the thread, and DMSO is highly atypical for use as a solvent for many reasons. I doubt a cosmetic chemist would every use it as a solvent and I’ve never seen a product marketed for regular topical use that contains it. I am surprised that so many are being so nonchalant about its use.

#297

I agree - shelf-life of rapamycin creams is an issue. I think right now you want to use up any DIY rapamycin cream over a period of a few months (obviously this is a generalization as I don’t know exactly what ingredients you are using).

For more details and papers on this topic see this part of the rapamycin for skin thread: Rapamycin May Slow Skin Aging (Drexel U. Study) - #17 by RapAdmin

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#298

Would you care to tell more?

#299

actually i did not make the whole 400g total weight but around 180g with the same proportionality so just multiply all by 9/20 and i plan on using it for 9 months to finish all of it. To anyone planning on doing any formulations of topical rapa in my opinion DO NOT USE rapamune tablets or anything other than as pure rapamycin powder u can get for a reasonable price. That should go without saying to anyone with any common sense.If you wanted to add water to something would u use a watermelon. no think not but that makes a lot more sense than using rapamune as a watermelon is over 90% water, rapamune tablets are much less than 10% rapamycin.

#300

it isn’t true as dmso is very commonly used as a solvent. most all professional papers making rapamycin, tacrolimus and many other solution start off dissolving it in dmso. if u don’t believe i can quote many many professional papers. Then after that most get rid of the dmso in a low pressure atmosphere and etc. They aren’t concerned about price or the extra work and they also have the means to evaporate off or what ever u call it to rid the dmso. The layman usually does not. So professionals can use other rather than dmso as many object to the odor etc. etc. and that debate of the safety and so on of dmso has been going on and continuously going on - many say it is safe and no problem while others say it is not. Anyway the pros will avoid any controversy by using something else. Though there are a few which i have read that do use dmso till the end at usually between 10 and 25%. One is for sure the pros don’t start off using rapamune tablets.Though have read papers of amatuers and maybe some semi pros in some sense trying different additives such as cosmetic moisturizers etc. to rapamune tablets and the ones who came out ahead with the most rapa absorbed into the skin were the ones who used micellar water to ‘dissolve’ the tablets in that particular case comparison in a paper published on internet.

#301

I think DMSO is a little more aggressive in terms of its results than most skin companies want… here is a quote from a cosmetic dermatology textbook:

Another solvent, dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO), by contrast, is relatively aggressive and induces significant structural perturbations such as keratin denaturation and the solubilization of membrane components

See full info and quote in this post: Rapamycin for Hair Growth and Hair Pigmentation - #320 by RapAdmin

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#302

and also see the many papers that use in addition msm to negate many of the complains of dmso.

#303

Most of the people using DMSO instead of Transcutol do so because Transcutol is hard to obtain in Europe compared to DMSO.

“Dr. Mark V. on this forum recommends DMSO as a topical cream solvent and he is much more of an authority on this issue than me”

“Drexel U. study and the NIH recipes regarding topical cream recommend Transcutol as the solvent of choice.”

As far as using rapamycin from compounding pharmacies they must use excipients as physical carriers for the rapamycin. They are hardly going to supply you with undiluted rapamycin.
Water, transcutol, and DMSO provide no nutrients and do not themselves sustain bacteria.
Unless you are adding something like agar which is a bacterial growing media the bacteria won’t grow in water

DMSO and Transcutol do not support bacterial growth, in fact, they suppress many bacteria.
As per Dr. B: “Rapamycin is a natural anti-fungal antibiotic produced by soil bacteria of Eastern Island”

Compared to cosmetics, all of which do not contain antibacterials BTW, DIY rapamycin creams/ sprays are made in small batches, do not get abnormal heat exposure, sit in distributors’ warehouses for weeks or months, then transferred to store shelves where they may sit again for weeks or months and it gets used up in relatively short periods of time.

“Rapamycin for longevity: opinion article - PMC”

#304

actually most of the articles for topical rapa don’t use either dmso nor transcutol and they are all over the board - hardly no generalities or standards. They are so varied it is difficult to make any generaliztions and definition of ’ best way '. For example here is another one in an article claiming this or that

For .1% rapa:
Rapamycin 0.02 g
Carbopol-974P 0.15 g
Glycerol 3.05 g
Absolute ethanol 6 g
α-tocophérol 0.04g it is basically a form of vit E

Urea 0.2 g
Sterile water 20 g

another article : ‘Rapamycin-Loaded, CapryolTM 90 and Oleic Acid Mediated Nanoemulsions: Formulation Development, Characterization and
Toxicity Assessment’ o/w,w/o mean oil in water,water in oil emulsions, ne means nano emulsion…Mixtures of surfactants (Tween 20, Tween 80,
Labrasol® and Cremophor® RH 40) and co-surfactants (Transcutol P, iso-propanol, PEG and PG) at different surfactant/co-surfactant weight ratios
(Rsm; namely, 1:2, 1:1, 2:1) were prepared… ne’s have advantages…high solubilization capacity compared to simple micellar solutions…

regardless of type of surfactant, iso-propanol seemed to be the most appropriate co-surfactant for
producing o/w NEs…The extent of NE domain in the presence of co-surfactants followed the order of iso-propanol > Transcutol® P > PG > PEG 400… for the formation of a NE, a single surfactant is rarely able to provide a low interfacial tension and
therefore, the addition of a co-surfactant is usually necessary… without a co-surfactant, an extremely inflexible surfactant film may form, leading to the
production of nanoemulsions in very limited range of component concentrations… Therefore, co-surfactant molecules (such alcohols with short and
medium chain length) are frequently used to further decrease the interfacial tension, increase the fluidity of the interfacial film allowing various
curvatures (43-47), reduce the bending stress of the boundary surface causing spontaneity of emulsification, lowering of size and polydispersity of
droplets … if you look at their results list will see many of the best did not contain transcutol though some did.

primer …their use of oleic acid makes me think i should have used olive oil rather than any other oils and also not glycerin though in fact would probably not notice any difference or even not using any oils for that matter as i don’t have nearly the facilities and know how to even approximate a nano emulsion of their doing if at all.

i use dmso as it is proven many year standard as the best universal solvent and mainly i have plenty of it and no need to go out and by more different stuff and people have been using for years in every kind of way including in their eyes at greater than 50% with no problems so it’s a no brainer
and my solution works well and in fact i do have a pinpoint proof because in addition to face and forehead and sometimes back of hands and other misc areas i do hair but only put it along frontal hair line and side burn area which is usually the first to turn grayish and now it isn’t but in fact a little darker than the rest of the hair in general. So i have no reason not to use it like many many other people who have been using for years for all kinds of things on their body with no problem as one can attest by reading their reports. I am not interested in making money for the cosmetic industry by trying to say one should fret about this and that and ofcourse they would also not want to use it for the odor. Cosmetic industry is about the last to trust - they have more hype and unproven issues than most all others. Yea there are other more scientific objectors but for about each them you will others asserting it’s no problem and they have also been using it with no problem = see youtube and all elsewhere.

#305

regardless of what u use that is the main issue. DON’T USE RAPAMYCIN TABLETS

ON your next post there is an error statement: 1 milligram is 0.1% of 1 gram not .001% but i don’t know that that had anything to do with your calculation. 10mg in 100g is is ratio 10^(-4) is .01% not .001% so that is .01% rapa but how do u know u had 10mg rapa in the first place. From where did u get that ? not that it is necessarily wrong.

Also example of using dmso at 70% in the literature just below for topical anesthesia

@scta123 asking about how to make topical anesthetic…the lidocaine has to be at a much higher concentration than the 2 or 3% common for injections for topical and also must penetrate skin of which most all commercial products do not atleast not at all well eg emla cream and they are very poor providing very little relief if any in some situations. See article 'Topical Lidocaine for Anesthesia in Patients Undergoing Pulsed Dye Laser Treatment for Vascular Malformations
Topical lidocaine for anesthesia in patients undergoing …
National Institutes of Health (.gov)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › … S B Mallory [ 1 ]
(Topical lidocaine for anesthesia in patients undergoing pulsed dye laser treatment for vascular malformations - PubMed), P A Lehman, D R Vanderpool, T J Franz The abstract:

Abstract

Pulsed dye laser treatment of vascular malformations is moderately painful. Twenty-five percent lidocaine in 70% dimethyl sulfoxide-ethanol was used to achieve anesthesia in patients undergoing the procedure. Thirteen of 14 patients had some degree of anesthesia (average of 51%) ranging from 10% to 100%, with 8 of them experiencing good results (> 50% anesthesia). Diminishment of pain was assessed by comparison of laser therapy on lidocaine-treated versus untreated sites within the vascular malformation using verbal and visual analog scales. In vitro permeation demonstrated good absorption of lidocaine, peaking at one hour. Permeation of lidocaine was significantly greater then that observed from acid mantle cream or EMLA. Topical lidocaine at 25% concentration in dimethyl sulfoxide 70% was well tolerated and had no side effects except transient mild erythema.

Another use of dmso in invention.wee article Lidocaine hydrochloride, citric acid and dimethyl sulfoxide, solution, and formation thereof ’

Lidocaine hydrochloride, citric acid and dimethyl sulfoxide, solution, and formation thereof

Abstract

A solution of lidocaine hydrochloride, dimethyl sulfoxide and citric acid or citric acid monohydrate is prepared, for topical application to an animal or human.

Blockquote

Another article also suggesting how one can make topical anesthetic which highlights alpha terpineol as superior. The effects of some permeability enhancers on the percutaneous absorption of lidocaine

Now i am waiting till i get back to states and then i will just buy lidocaine powder and maybe tetracaine powder from Mesochem in China instead of just evaporating the water out of the 2 or 3% injectable lidocaine that i have as i did before which is more tedious and expensive.

@Alpha you said ‘I have powdered Rapamycin in capsules from a compounding pharmacy.’ Rapa and what else did the compounding place say
or did he say ? was in the capsules. Unless they are really tiny capsules or you paid a fortune for them and even if u did i sincerely doubt that it
is even 10% rapa. What did u pay for how many of what size capsules 00 , #1 ,000 or what size ?

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#306

just because u haven’t seen it does not mean it does not exist. There are plenty of examples in posts below or above for one using it at 70% in topical anesthetic superior to conventional EMLA and more

#307

Thx. I must ask in compounding pharmacy how they get their lidocaine for creams. I ordered 20% lidocaine cream some time ago, but surely was without DMSO and I can report back that it did nothing in terms of anesthesia. If they have powder I can order that and some DMSO (maybe transcutol would be a good idea too?). Unfortunately I live in Europe and Chinese powders would be confiscated by customs.

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#308

i am practically 100% certain they do not have pure lidocaine powder and even if they did it is almost certain they would not sell it to you. From my supplier in china it is quite expensive from them at $135/5grams or $27/g which is the problem. But that supplier’s price seems way too high to me so i am also going to look more. problem with most chinese suppliers is they only want to deal in very large quantities and dollar amounts and also the problem of getting fake goods from some and think it is impossible to find one to take credit card. That is another reason why i tried to boil or evaporate off most of the water in regular 2% lidocaine that i have and can buy 50ml 2% lidocaine in philippines for a little less than a dollar which obviously comes to a dollar per gram of lidocaine vs $27 for the powder. Though also the idea of trying to rid some of the excess water is easier said than done as for one likely there may be surfactants , emulsifiers , maybe even preservatives along with the 2% lidocaine. One thing with the place i use in china is they always claim and write it is something else more benign in the customs declaration though i don’t know that will work for your customs agents in wherever u live or not. Also u need to check whether it is any more effective using with epinephrine or without for the topical as injected lidocaine is certainly more effective with it. Don’t necessarily believe what ever that compounding person or anyone else in that pharmacy tells u.

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#309

where did u see the solubility data of rapa in EVOO

#310

about in the freezer . but that won’t stop virus’s as they do better in the cold than at room temperature

#311

Some of this discussion here on DMSO has made me nervous — in particular the mention of denaturing skin cells with DMSO (I’m less nervous about transporting impurities through my skin). I have DMSO and would like to use it for my @desertshores - style skin spray. Would 5% DMSO (by volume) mixed in distilled water be gentle enough to use directly on skin 1-2x per day? Or would I need to dilute even further? It seems many of us are using 25% DMSO by volume on hair and skin and reporting good results (@Agetron and others). Is 5% DMSO too conservative?

I’ve read many papers and articles which even mention using 50-100% DMSO directly on skin, but if it is denaturing skin protein/collagen, I can’t imagine this wouldn’t have been noticed before.

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