Dermo-electroporation for Aging Skin Health and Rejuvenation

#164

Don’t worry it’ll come to you in some 20-30 years! I know my skin is not the same as decades ago and responds differently on interventions now. Expecting old skin to react exactly the same way as young skin is a little naive imo.

I did not try dilute Radiesse by DEP - I still have injected Radiesse in my face which will last for some time. Didn’t want to overdo.

HA is recommended to use with DEP so I tried it 2 times and compared it to the same by injection. The result wasn’t in favor of DEP. May be if I tried it 5 times or more the result could be better, but it doesn’t make sense to waste so much filler if I can simply inject it once and have a great result immediately that would last at least 6 months.

It’s great that it works for you. And I can see a benefit for those who do not want to do injections. It’s definitely convenient and fast.

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#165

So, I wanted to understand this more…

My Prompt

What is the clinical and scientific evidence that older human skin responds more poorly to therapeutics (topical, injections, etc.) for skin health, than does younger human skin?

CGPT5.1 Response:

Yes, there is good mechanistic and some clinical evidence that older human skin has a weaker / slower regenerative response than younger skin. But it’s not as simple as “treatments don’t work in older people.” Older skin:

  • Heals more slowly and with less tensile strength.
  • Has fibroblasts that proliferate less and make less collagen in response to the same stimuli.
  • Often needs more aggressive or repeated procedures to get similar visible change, and carries more risk.

At the same time, classic therapies (retinoids, lasers, fillers) still produce meaningful improvements in older skin — they’re just working against a weaker biological substrate with more accumulated damage.

Full response here:

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#166

Because I don’t currently want fillers in my face, it sound like I’d only be using this in my hands now (and for $200, that is still under consideration)… can you remind me how much a vial of sculptra or radiesse is? I’m doing the math to figure out how much I care about my craggy hands :slight_smile:

#167

I think your situation is unique in that you know how to inject already. If I did, I would stick to that and not even bother with DEP.

I don’t assert that older skin responds just as well as younger skin to any treatment. But it might be possible to achieve the same delta in satisfaction with the outcome. And at least your experience so far hasn’t disproved it.

Radiesse behaves very differently when it’s injected undiluted vs diluted. Undiluted it adds volume. Diluted it’s a bio stimulant / rejuvenator. I have used Cytocare and NCFT 135 HA and they gave me a nice glow via DEP but didn’t change my skin. They’d probably work better injected as mesotherapy but I doubt they’d have transformed my skin like Radiesse has because I’ve seen before and after videos of people in their 20s using them and the most that can be expected.

So I don’t know that your skin would react as well as that of someone’s in her 20s or even mine at almost 40, but the improvement compared to your OWN baseline might be huge nevertheless. And maybe it’s not. But so far your experience hasn’t disproved it because the compounds you’ve used aren’t heavy hitters.

Have you thought of using Sculptra?

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#168

No, never used Sculptra. I don’t think I need it at this point. My skin looks pretty good and I just need to maintain it that way for as long as possible. My pictures are still evaluated by AI as 39-45 yo. And I’m happy with that.

I started using HA based fillers when I turned 40. Early start is really important as my experience proved. I plan on continuing DEP for hard to reach areas and general hydration. Working now on making my own HA serum for DEP by combining sterile saline with HA powder (by Microingredients) and storing it in sterile syringes for 5-7 days with no preservatives. Will see how it works or if it works at all. It’s pretty inexpensive to try. The main challenge is to keep it not contaminated.

IMG_8983

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#169

Just to be a contrarian here… I’ve been using a few regular face serums and no issues. And the CGPT analysis previously posted suggested the only issue is higher risk of skin irritation, but I’ve seen none of that. The bigger issue for me is if it’s actually doing anything significant. I’m still in testing mode on that, and am undecided.

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#170

Oh, this is excellent to hear! I know we can use regular products when microneedling which is why I thought I could do the same with dep.

I didn’t realize you were using it. Keep us posted!!!

I’d love my fancy serums to be absorbed better on my face, or fillers in my granny hands…

How comfortable or uncomfortable are you finding it? How long does it take to do you face?

#171

Re-read this section if you are trying serums. Not all serums are appropriate, and if in doubt, post the ingredient list to CGPT and check: Dermo-electroporation for Aging Skin Health and Rejuvenation - #30 by RapAdmin

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#172

@Beth I’ve only tried the DEP once so far, with a simple HA solution (label said 5% if I remember correctly), 3 ml. I got about a week of noticeably plumper, more hydrated skin. For me that already makes the device worthwhile as a hydration booster, considering how inexpensive it is. One session took around 10 minutes.

I’ve now ordered Fillmed NCTF 135 HA and Cytocare 532, which are usually used for microneedling or microinjections. They’re HA-based serums with a cocktail of vitamins, amino acids, etc., aimed at improving collagen and elastin over time. For me it works out to roughly 15 eur per application (3 ml NCTF or 5 ml Cytocare), which I find reasonable if they actually make a difference.

Plan is to add DEP as a bi-weekly or monthly “skin booster” step. I really hate injections, but I still let my husband inject Sunekos about every 6 months (I suffer every time :sweat_smile:). Next time I’m thinking of using DEP first with some lidocaine to numb the area a bit more.

I’m also thinking about trying Radiesse on my neck, although I’m quite sceptical about how effective it will be there. On the other hand, a 1.5 ml syringe is around 80–100 eur where I’m buying, so I might experiment. If it works nicely on the neck, I’d definitely consider Radiesse for my hands as well, probably in combination with the same serums I use on my face.

If @medaura has a good experience with Sculptra, I’ll probably try that with DEP too. In theory PLLA itself is in the right molecular-weight range (somewhere around 80–90 kDa), but Sculptra is made of solid PLLA microspheres, so I honestly don’t know how much of it DEP can realistically push through the skin compared with proper injections. I’m not sure I’d dare to use it on my face anyway… would you, @medaura?

In any case, if DEP ends up being even 50% as effective as injections, the potential savings are huge. A 5 ml Sculptra “dose” is roughly 100 eur as raw product, while having the same amount injected by a reputable doctor is easily 600–800 € (or more in the US) per session.

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#173

Great feedback!

Ok, I think I’m sold on at least trying it for my hands.

I need some handholding on this… pun intended

Does the hivemind think I should I use sculptra or radiesse for my hands, and where do I source them? I want to check out pricing.

I can get my doc to write an rx for numbing cream, but if these places also sell that, do direct me….

Yes, I’m having paralysis by analysis and I need to be spoonfed…

#174

I have Beauty of Joseon Revive Serum which is compatible with DEP per Copilot:

Yes, the Beauty of Joseon Revive Serum (Ginseng + Snail Mucin) appears safe for use with DEP (Dermal Electroporation), assuming no individual sensitivities. Its ingredients are generally non-irritating, water-based, and compatible with DEP’s transdermal delivery mechanism.

:test_tube: Ingredient Overview

This serum contains 28 ingredients, with key actives and support components that align well with DEP protocols:

Key Actives

• Ginseng Root Water (63%): Rich in saponins; anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, and skin-revitalizing.
• Snail Secretion Filtrate (3%): Promotes hydration, repair, and elasticity; widely used in K-beauty for barrier support.

Supportive Ingredients

• Niacinamide: Brightening, anti-inflammatory, and barrier-strengthening.
• Hydrolyzed Hyaluronic Acid: Deep hydration and plumping; ideal for DEP.
• Centella Asiatica Extract: Soothing and healing.
• Ganoderma Lucidum (Mushroom) Extract: Antioxidant and anti-aging.
• Forsythia Suspensa Fruit Extract: Antimicrobial and calming.

Base and Stabilizers

• Water, Glycerin, Butylene Glycol, Dipropylene Glycol: All water-soluble and DEP-compatible.
• Carbomer, Disodium EDTA, 1,2-Hexanediol: Common stabilizers and preservatives; non-irritating in low concentrations.

:white_check_mark: DEP Compatibility Assessment

Ingredient Type DEP Compatibility Notes
Water-based actives :white_check_mark: Excellent Enhances conductivity and absorption
Botanical extracts :white_check_mark: Safe Anti-inflammatory and antioxidant-rich
Snail mucin :white_check_mark: Compatible High molecular weight but still effective with DEP
Niacinamide :white_check_mark: Ideal Stable and beneficial for barrier and tone
Hyaluronic acid :white_check_mark: Excellent Enhances hydration and plumping
Preservatives (EDTA, etc.) :white_check_mark: Safe in low % No known DEP interference

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#175

You encouraged me to ask perplexity about my current serum and it suggests it is also compatible…

The catch:
It then dawned on me it sounds we need a large quantity of product for DEP, and that means I would not have the stomach to do that with my serum. It’s expensive but I only use one drop and it lasts me several months.

But, I can check out the BOJ or other options.

Also, it dawned on me that fillers, like Juviderm, are HA… what makes those long lasting (some fillers actually last forever) vs injecting or using dep for other HA? Hmmmmm…
EDIT: I looked it up, I think you know more than I do, but for anyone who didn’t know, it’s about the cross linking

#176

EDIT: I’m still trying to search to figure out how many vials I of radiesse I would get for 200 (in one box). I know @medura said it might be a vial per decade…
Still having no luck, but thought I’d share a before and after radiesse in the hands photo… keep in mind, these are injections and no idea what DEP will do

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I just found this source you shared for real product.

I see the 1.5ml will cost just under 200 US

How much of this would I need to do my hands once?

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#177

You’ll probably need one or two, depending on the condition of your hands and how much volume you’re going for. I’d start with one and see how far that gets you. Just remember you need to dilute Radiesse and use luer lock syringes plus a luer lock syringe-to-syringe connector so you can mix the Radiesse with saline. @medaura recommends a 1:2 dilution, which should be sufficient.

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#178

@Beth I’m under impression that you are a little confused on how Radiesse has to be applied for hands rejuvenation. It has to be professionally injected to achieve what you see in the picture. It’s the only way and you do not need to buy it abroad.

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#179

Thank you Lara,
Apparently I am still confused!
I was thinking I could use DEP to get some radiesse into my hands.

It’s my impression that it’s not as effective as injections and that it’s not as long lasting, so I am trying to get a better understanding on all of it to avoid buying a $200 machine that is going to need thousands $$ in product to get the results I’m looking for.

I didn’t know where to buy the product, so I simply went to the link scta provided… but yes, he is not in the US :).

#180

No, it won’t work. You’ll waste at least 1 syringe ($250 with customs clearance) and will have 0 results. When syringe is open you have to use the whole thing during that procedure. You cannot store it for “tomorrow”. One session of DEP won’t be enough for any visible results. How many syringes are you ready to buy just to see if it works or not? Do it professionally to save money. It has to be injected for your hands to look like in the picture.

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#181

Thank you Lara for your (and everyone’s) patience with me asking all these questions.

I am a pro at sub q injections but I would have no idea how to inject filler, and it’s certainly not in my dna to pay a doc thousands for my hands to look better.

Thank you again!

#182

Sounds like a job for the BPC 157 + TB500 (aa43) combo as they are synergistic in the function of angiogenesis.

When I get my DEP machine I’ll be making a serum with; Sildenafil + BPC 157 + TB500 + NR + ULMW HA + Transcutol in bacteriostatic water. Will be doing some testing without the Sildenafil prior the machine arriving using micro needling to evaluate any adverse reactions before I use the DEP machine.

This is going to be fun and I’m really enjoying all the great experience’s and information being shared here.

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#183

Keep us posted about the results pls

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