Crucial insight needed on Rapamycin Nephrotoxicity/Hyperactivation of AKT

Like many of you, I’ve been studying biochemistry journals for years. I’ve run across Rapamycin countless times and have dedicated whole weeks to studying it.

Does anyone have any recent literature reconciling what seems to be a disparity between people (like David Sinclair) claiming nephrotoxicity (albeit with higher doses presumably from TOR2 inhibition) - but also the concerns with TOR2 hyperactivation in cancer? (At the lower, “non-toxic doses”).

This seems to be concerning for all people who take Rapamycin regardless of dose. Because it means that if you take the “low, anti-aging, wash out dose” - you might be increasing cancer (through hyperactivation of AKT?) - and if you take higher doses (total inhibition of TOR2/AKT) you may be impairing the kidneys natural maintenance/regeneration (along with the liver) - which might cause long term permanent irreversible damage?? I take many supplements which makes the kidney/liver concerns serious - and also very concerned with cancer! Thanks!!

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Thanks for posting this. I was unaware of kidney damage as a possible side effect. Dr. Green has several blood tests performed on his patients. Kidney glomerular filtration rate is one of the tests. He has not reported any kidney issues in any of his patients thus far that I am aware of.

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Sinclair the Resveratrol (SIRT) fraudster…highly suspicious of his conflicts of interest.

In the video, he specifically references TRANSPLANT doses, not anti-aging intermittent doses.

I track both liver and kidney functions regularly, and noticed a significant improvement in both after starting Rapamycin. My doctor wanted me to lower my GGT (liver enzyme), and I tried many lifestyle interventions, and GGT wouldn’t make a step change down. But after starting Rapamycin, it went down significantly. We know from studies, Rapamcyin is quite active in liver and kidney, the latter one of the most sensitive organs for Rapamycin expression.

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I appreciate your response. What is your dosing?

I have been studying Rapamycin for some time and papers always reference some kind of toxicity but there is never an elaboration or explanation.

The Liver/Kidney’s being organs I believe that constantly regenerate - may require a base amount of TOR??

The anecdotes and lack of very many papers detailing the toxicity are nice - but it would be great to pierce through a lot of the “smoke”.

Also I don’t think there is enough discussion concerning TOR2 hyperactivation from TOR1 inhibition and the effects of this on proliferative diseases - especially cancer - or other healthy apoptosis kind of processes.

Currently, 12 mg with GFJ, weekly. I started with 4mg, then jumped to 8mg.

Rapamycin was FDA approved in 2006 for DAILY usage…it is a safe drug, large window of dosing tolerance, side effect reversibility.

When I first read about it, I thought “yikes, playing with an immunosuppressive/anti-cancer drug”?!

Thousands of mainstream people take it, I’ve not read of any serious medical issues.

You can measure the effects of too much TOR2 suppression with side effects and blood biomarkers.

The risk/reward/side effects equation AND the plethora of mammal models studied is extremely compelling.

I’ve read a lot of Rapamycin papers, and cancer suppression is the most mediated mortality pathway.

I am speaking of my personal n=1 journey, this is not medical advice. Seek out professional medical advice if you are risk averse, or in my case, find a supportive doctor who will oversee your journey.

I am hoping TOR1 only suppression rapalogs get approved in the not to distant future. They’ve been researched, we just need the clinical trials.

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FWIW, my comment, if and when a product is available, cost will be out of range for most people.

I see the cost to be several thousand per month.

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You are probably right…without a patent, NO Pharmaco is going to invest in doing clinical trials, and then they will want to reap back the investments. This is the pharma game…sigh.

Well, at least we have Rapamycin for now…heck, I’d take 15-20% mice longevity extension, wouldn’t you!!!

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Thank you for sharing your experiences. Wow 12mg with gfj every week sounds pretty high - how long have you been doing it for?

Blagosklonny a prominent Rapamycin researcher has advocated on twitter 24 mg every 2 weeks.

I wish to reduce my cancer risk and my concern is not TOR2 suppression but TOR2 hyperactivation from TOR1 suppression - are you familiar with this?

12 mg/GFJ last 3 months.

My lipids and glucose and other classic TOR2 suppression markers are not dysregulated.

Blagosklonny, a big Rapamycin proponent, is a cancer specialist, have read most all of his papers.

Please pass along your TOR2 references.

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If you want to reduce your cancer risk, move to Okinawa, eat like they do, exercise regularly, live like a hermit away from anything made made, including pollution.

Living the Okinawa way.

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Just did a quick search, not finding references connecting TOR2 hyper activation with TOR1 suppression. Generally, Rapamycin suppresses both, much more so TOR1, and TOR2 only under chronic administration.

TOR2 hyper activation is indeed associated with various cancer lines, but Rapamycin clearly suppresses TOR2, and has been shown resoundingly to reduce cancer growth in various animal models.

4.2. Cancer.

Deregulation of mTORC2, particularly hyperactivation, has been commonly observed in many types of human cancers. Mutations and aberrant amplifications of mTORC2 core components are two main factors contributing to its hyperactivation. For example, mutations in the mTOR-FAT domain decrease mTOR binding to the inhibitor DEPTOR, thereby conferring the hyperactivation of both mTOR complexes [102]. In addition, Rictor has also been identified to be highly mutated [102] and abnormally overexpressed through genetic and epigenetic regulations [103] in a variety of cancer types. The exact functions of these abnormalities in tumorigenesis and treatment await identification. Nonetheless, mTORC2 regulates AGC kinase family proteins, such as Akt and PKC, for their stabilization and activity, which have important roles in the cell proliferation, survival, and migration, thereby having a crucial role in cancer [2]. In terms of metabolism, mTORC2 activation promotes glucose uptake, facilitates glycolysis, and inhibits oxidative phosphorylation, which may contribute greatly to the alter- ation of glucose metabolism in cancer cells, known as the Warburg Effect, conferring to a high rate of cell prolifera- tion [71, 79]. Furthermore, mTORC2-mediated lipogenesis is identified to promote hepatocellular carcinoma, particularly by stimulating sphingolipid and glycerophospholipid synthesis, which fuels cancer cell growth and energy production [104].

In addition, Rapamycin derivatives have been applied to cancer treatment in clinical trials with limited efficiency, which is thought to be due to the limitation to inhibit mTORC2 [2]. As such, the second-generation ATP- competitive inhibitors against mTOR kinase have entered clinical trials [105]. These mTOR kinase inhibitors show greater inhibitory effects on both complexes and are more effective in inhibiting cancer cell growth [106]. Moreover, dual mTOR/PI3K kinase inhibitors have been developed in order to fully suppress Akt and 4EBP1 activation [107]. Recently, selective inhibition of mTORC2 signaling by a nanoparticle-based RNAi therapy showed being able to effec- tively block breast cancer cell growth and survival [108]. All these suggest that mTORC2 might be a good therapeutic target for cancer treatment.

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AgingDoc on Twitter

And

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My 16 year old dog became very ill the day after her Rapamycin dose. The vet’s diagnosis is kidney failure. She has recovered now and has resumed normal behavior a week later. Kidney disease is common in old dogs, so this could be a coincidence. I wonder if nephrotoxicity from Rapamycin is dose dependent. My dog has been taking Rapamycin for over 3 years. She seems to do well on it, but I had gradually increased the dose to what may have been a toxic level. (3 mg once per week). I am discontinuing Rapamycin therapy for her. This is something to think about for those of us experimenting with higher doses of Rapamycin.

A meta-analysis of randomized clinical trials (RCT) was done to determine the relative risk (RR) of acute kidney injury (AKI) with the use of mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) inhibitors. Citations from PubMed/Medline, clinical trials.gov, package inserts and abstracts from major conferences were reviewed to include RCTs comparing arms with or without mTOR inhibitors. The RR of all grade AKI in patients taking mTOR inhibitors compared to patients not on mTOR inhibitors was 1.55 (95% CI: 1.11 to 2.16, P=0.010). There was no significant difference in the risk of high-grade AKI for the two groups (RR=1.29, P=0.118, 95% CI: 0.94 to 1.77). There was no significant difference in the incidence rates for either all grade or high-grade AKI between the two groups. There was no publication bias and the trials were of high quality per Jadad scoring.

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I asked the Dog Aging Project people about rapamycin nephrotoxicity and they responded’

“Hello,
Thank you for your interest in our project. The simple answer is, we don’t know. We are still in the blinded stages of our research so we don’t know which dogs are getting rapamycin and which are getting placebo. We have not conducted any analysis yet. We also exclude any dogs with current kidney disease before enrollment. I wish we could help you out! As a precaution, if a study dog were to develop severe enough kidney disease, we would also discontinue rapamycin since the full effects/side effects are currently unknown.”

A google search for rapamycin nephrotoxicity returns the following:

Rapamycin and its derivative everolimus appear not to be nephrotoxic to the healthy, predominantly quiescent kidney . However, in vitro studies and observations in animals and humans indicate that these agents are nephrotoxic in disease states.

If this is true then the strategy some of us are following, which increases rapamycin dosage as we get older, could be dangerous. We should be keeping a very close eye on all of our kidney related blood and urine tests before considering larger doses of rapamycin.

This issue is a big red flag to me. Kidney damage is a bit more serious than a few zits and mouth sores.

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Are you familiar with all the tests that relate to the kidney? Please list if you are.

My n of one example is my before and after eGFR using cystatinC and creatinine measurements before starting rapamycin. Both values improved post rapamycin. I am pretty sure eGFR only goes down with age so it might be an interesting marker to track if more people track before and after rapa. I wouldn’t rush to judgement on nephrotoxicity. Acne and skin infections definitely are a side effect I have noticed.

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The veterinarian rattled off a bunch of information very quickly: BUN, creatinine, protein in the urine, etc. Fortunately, I have a copy of the dog’s test results. I will post the results from last week, and the comparison tests in a couple of months. She seems fully recovered right now. If the follow up tests show no kidney disease, then I suspect an acute kidney issue instead of the typical chronic kidney disease from old age. For humans the E-gfr and cystatin c tests are used to evaluate kidney function. One thing I wonder about is bacterial infection from periodontal disease perhaps made worse by a big dose of rapamycin. Someone speculated that knocking down mtorc-2 could damage the kidneys, but a bunch of bacteria in the bloodstream could also be hard on the kidneys.