Concerned about APOB

Supplements
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#21

Hi @MAC , these are baseline tests I got before I started Rapamycin, so I know for a fact that Rapa has nothing to do with these results.

Trigcylerides are good, HDL is okay.

#22

Thank you everyone for your input.

Just to clarify, these blood results were taken before I started rapamycin, as a baseline.

Looking at what has changed since my last blood test 8 months ago, where LDL was borderline but lower, this is what I have observed.

  1. 2 days a week, I switched my vegetarian protein (chickpeas or tempeh) at dinner with salmon (taking total consumption of fatty fish up to 85g X 3 per week);

  2. 3 grams fish oil capsules, at the advice of a doctor who is ‘bullish’ on omega 3s;

  3. added more olive oil to my meals

I’m actually starting to think that more fat in my diet isn’t necessarily good for me personally, even though they are ‘good fats’. Some days I would eat up to 50g walnuts, 45g avocado, 45ml olive oil.

So I’m going to experiment with less fat overall and see if it makes a difference.

I’ve halved my fish oil (1.5g), and ditched the extra olive oil. No more than 20g walnuts and only 3-4 times a week instead of every day. Will still have 45g avocado most days. I’ll also go back to the 2 nights a week of vegetarian option instead of salmon, so now only eating salmon once a week (that is what I was doing before).

Has anybody else experienced increased LDL as a result of adding more good fats to diet?

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#23

Hi @JMA , good to see another woman on here experimenting with Rapa. I thinks it’s good to compare notes.

I think I’ll start with some dietary changes and amla, and take it from there. I don’t think I’m necessarily a heart attack waiting to happen but it’s good to be cautious.

Are you taking 40mg of the pravastatin?

#24

thank you @David , I am already taking HRT.

#25
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#26

I like bergamot. Sometimes I have taken supplements to fix something that was not broken. When I was taking bergamot my lipids were fine. Maybe you can just have a few cups of Earl Grey Tea, which is the only tea that I like. I may revisit if my lipids do not decrease after stopping rapamycin.

Clinical application of bergamot (Citrus bergamia) for reducing high cholesterol and cardiovascular disease markers
“Multiple clinical trials have provided evidence that different forms of orally administered bergamot can reduce total cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol.”
“The use of bergamot in multiple clinical trials has consistently shown that it is well-tolerated in studies ranging from 30 days to 12 weeks”

“Bergamot has long been part of the Mediterranean diet, which is known to be one of the healthiest diets and to help cut down the chance of cardiovascular disease. It is often used in traditional forms of medicine for the treatment of inflammation, wounds and as an antiseptic, as well as for heart protection.”

“A daily supplement of bergamot fruit extract could be very effective for the treatment of high cholesterol.”
https://www.labmate-online.com/news/news-and-views/5/breaking-news/a-cup-of-tea-a-day-could-keep-the-doctor-away-earl-grey-tea-reduces-he

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#27

@Basil_Dev Don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater…these are ALL amazing super foods, high in MUFA/PUFA, and DHA too (salmon + fish oil)

Yes, when I went strict plant fat based keto, and one meal a day, my TC and LDL went up as expected. From a clinical atherogenic risk, I was mostly interested in TG, TG/HDL, and remnant cholesterol (RC=TC-HDL-LDL-C)

This is the culprit I think. I eat all the same foods you reference, but no carbs/grains. When I started my plant keto, I would eat almost 50ml EVOO daily to get to my 75% plant fats calories macros. I was trying to beat down elevated TG and TG/HDL, and only when I dialed back EVOO was I able to get to my targets. I traded EVOO for more avocado/nuts. Now I use EVOO just as a light dressing.

Cretans consume something like 50 L of EVOO per year…and are one of the highest longevity cohorts.

What are your TG, TG/HDL and RC? Look at these in addition to APOB.

If you look at the “how to lower APOB” nutritionally video link posted by David below:

  1. weight loss
  2. trade saturated fats and carbs for more MUFA/PUFA fats
  3. add fiber.

Maybe not, and your metabolic profile looks very healthy, but you don’t know what you don’t know…consider getting a coronary CT calcium scan, it will instantly tell you your risk status. And at 55, with a low score, you have much more wiggle room.

3 Likes
#28

Hi @MAC , thanks for the advice, that is very interesting!

I’m a healthy weight and rarely eat trans fats or saturated fats.

HDL = 2.2 mmol/L, TG = 0.6 mmol/L and TG:HDL ratio = 0.6. (Don’t know RC)

I’m not saying i ‘won’t’ eat the PUFAs, just will eat less of them. 45g avocado and 20g walnuts per day seems reasonable, given my height and weight. I will still take 1.5g fish oil per day, and have salmon on Saturdays.

I also eat no grains but do eat chickpeas which have some carbs and add psyllium to each meal, as well as plenty of veggies.

It always baffles me that we’re told to increase fibre but we’re not allowed carbs - how is that possible on a plant based diet? Both proteins I consume have some carbs.

I’m definitely ditching the olive oil, and I’ll get a blood test in a few months and see how that has affected things.

If things look good I may add in a few more nuts.

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#29

thank you @desertshores - I’m sensitive to caffeine so can’t have too much tea. That much would have me not sleeping for a week!

what is a reasonable daily dose of bergamot?

#30

FWIW add/try Inulin.

I use a chicory root based Inulin.

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#31

TG and TG/HDL are EXCELLENT…low atherogenic profile.

RC = TC - HDL - LDL-C (so would need TC and LDL-C)

I would keep the full on DHA.

This is RC chart in both unit types.

image

Add psyllium powder or some chia seeds to your meals, excellent and easy way without adding carbs.

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#32

Thank you @MAC !

looks like my RC is 0.3 mmol/L, no risk.

That makes me feel a lot better.

Yes I’m added psyllium to every meal now.

#33

Thank you @Joseph, yes I do take inulin daily.

#34

Looks like I need to increase my psyllium!

#35

How much? That is always a tricky question because there are so many variables. Starting with the supplement suppliers: They often overstate the potency and exactly what it is you are getting and some come with BioPerine to aid absorption.
So, I guess a reasonable dose is to start out with is the manufacturer’s recommended dose and see what it does to your lipid levels
My bottle of “Citrus Bergomat” recommends 1 - 2 capsules daily.
1 capsule contains 500 mg citrus bergamot extract 35:1 which they claim is equivalent to 17.5 grams of the fruit.
Yes, you would have to drink a lot of tea to get that dose.
I believe it is one of the safer supplements and did not cause me any digestive or other problems.

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#36

I take my cholesterol drugs Monday, Wednesday, and Friday with good results. This was my idea, independent of my cardiologist who initially wanted me to go with them 7 days a week.
I’ve never had an APOB but today (sale is ending soon) I bought one from Life Extension for $21.

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#37

thank you @desertshores that sounds like a great plan:)

#38

@vegasallen1 , do those things really work accurately?

#39

Great! There are some in the hormone community that use estradiol to bring down LDL and some will use in men! One of the courses I went to had a Cardiovascular surgeon taking large amounts of estradiol to correct his cholesterol levels.

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#40

David
What are your thoughts on DHEA and the drop off with aging?
The benefits of supplements don’t seem very clear.

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