Peter Attia says he’s stopped taking Rapamycin because of mouth sores?
I’m guessing that most people don’t get Aphthous sores (canker sores) often, or at all, and if so, not severely because they would understand Peter Attia’s point. They hurt like hell and he’s already got four years of Rapa benefits.
For me, everything was reasonably ok for first year of using Rapa. However, I now get ulcers EVERY time I take any dose, thats about three years (four in total). My ulcers are large, wide-spread, painful and cause extreme discomfort for about two weeks. My teeth and gums are excellent bar a few minor fill ins. I’ve posted on this site my attempts to reduce the issues. My wife is a GP so I’ve tried almost every treatment.
I’m healthy, fit and don’t take any medications. I eat well, do HIIT training three times a week, live well and have great family and friends. I’ve schooled on the issue and I have mitigated the worst of the problems but I’m still constantly afflicted by the ulcers.
I assume you tried the Sabatini mouthwash protocol and it did not work? Based on mechanism of action I thought it should work in almost all cases, but if not, that’s bad luck. It all seems very unpredictable. I think RapAdmin got one when he just started, but then nothing since. I have not had one so far, but I’ve only been on rapa for less than a year and for the past three weeks escalated the dose from 6mg once a week to 10mg and will keep that up for another 2-3 weeks before going back to 6mg. I had my periodontist do a battery of tests on gum and bone health before getting on rapa and come November next week he’ll run the same tests to see if rapa has had any impact (this in the context of getting dental implants, so regarding rapa impact on bone regeneration, if any).
Sure. Although in general, my dental hygiene is stellar, so there are no likely changes to gum health; the change we are looking for is in the alveolar ridge anchoring the teeth, and possible impact on osseointegration of the titanium implant.
Hey CT, thank you for the feedback. I haven’t heard of anything called the “Sabatini mouthwash protocol” but I recall he discussed mouth ulcers with Peter Attia and focused on dexamethasone (steroid) mouthwash. This is commonly prescribed by dentists after mouth surgery. In Australia it’s a compounding pharmacy script. I think that in the US it can be found in a compound called “Magic Mouthwash” but that isn’t available here. I’d say dexamethasone is the best treatment I’ve tried but, perhaps like Peter Attia, it didn’t solve the ulcers problem. If Sabatini had further advice please point me at it! Many thanks.
Thank you. Yes, that’s a very interesting hypothesis. I don’t know that anyone has proven this out, or if anyone has tried it with positive results? Matt K. also suggests a rapa toothpaste for periodontal and other general oral benefits.
LOL, exactly. He’s just polishing himself for a larger commercial foot print. Near zero new info (IMHO) just polish and promo.
Read his book, tossed it. Too drug-y (statins) too decade old… Nothing new (for me). Today this article; Just buz and promo IMHO nothing new for us. Sure lots new for SAD’ers, sick Americans but thats not us here.
A quote from his recent longevity 101 podcast really struck me how big the shift has been from “life extension” to “let’s just try to slow the damage a little”
“I was thinking about this today in the gym actually, I was like, wow, it is really so obvious to me with each passing day that I am completely past my prime physically and cognitively. And I will never again be as physically strong, fit, flexible, free of pain.
Like pick your metrics that all make up physical health span. I will never again reach the pinnacles that I had reached in my late teens and 20s. And similarly, cognitively, I’m basically a moron compared to the person I used to be, in terms of processing speed, problem solving, just raw intellectual horsepower.
Oddly, in my 85th year, I am more pain-free than I was in my 20s and 30s. In my late 20s, I was being treated regularly for pack pain, and I remember often having headaches. In many areas, I am still as physically strong in terms of raw muscle power because I have been going to the gym, running, and playing tennis most of my life. What I have lost is speed, endurance, and reaction time.
I don’t even remember the last time I had a cold or the flu, at least many decades ago.
What do I attribute this to? Exercise Poly pharmacy Rapamycin (Shortly after starting rapamycin in Dec. 2021, at a relatively high weekly dose, I have been pain-free, including headaches and the typical pain that accompanies old age, arthritis, neuropathic pain, and fibromyalgia.) Genes Immunization shots. (Because of the military and my employment in foreign countries, I have received too many shots to remember. Starting from childhood to my most recent flu shot. Among them are mumps, measles, tetanus, diphtheria, pertussis, and yellow fever, etc. My most recent vaccines in the last few years are influenza, COVID-19, shingles, RSV, and pneumococcal. The only one that I had a severe reaction to was the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine.)
Cognitively, the most significant decline has been in processing speed, the ability to do math problems in my head, and the ability to memorize lists, etc., for any substantial amount of time.
Subjectively, my most significant decline is in energy and endurance, though I still seem okay at the gym.
My story’s a little different, but has in common with @desertshores that my experience of general health and lack of pain is notably better now in my 60s than it was in my 20s.
It’s not a simple equation – some things are better, some are not. For me, it’s likely that I was particularly impaired in early adulthood, with deleterious biochemical inputs (pollution, etc) that cost me health. But also, in those days, estrogen wasn’t bioavailable as it is now, and that had a strong effect on me, too, positive and negative.
Yes, my energy was better then as was my ability to put on muscle mass. (Then there’s elastin which I sure miss having plenty of.) But I was injured a lot, sick a lot, and didn’t have mood stabilization. Significantly better now.
Among the many things to which I attribute my impressive health improvements are 15 years of methylation cycle supplementation (like a reboot), ceasing non-bioidentical estrogen in my 20s, recent bioavail HRT, and two years of rapamycin.
There might be other factors. I eat well, exercise regularly, and prioritize human contact. There are a lot of inputs.
My point: yes, it is possible to feel better in many ways than you did in your twenties, depending on how things were for you in your twenties. I’ve been working this stuff for 40 years, because I had to. My health – and at some points my life – depended on my figuring things out. I’m still figuring things out.
What does that mean? If you’re talking about living longer, statins are pretty much the only drug that is actually show to help you do that.
And I don’t think it was meant to be new. It’s a sort of common sense guide for the general public on how to think about longevity and some of the steps they can take. Getting your medical checks, dealing with cholesterol etc is longevity 101. If you’re already into taking Rapamycin, one would assume you’ve already taken care of the basics like smoking, diet, blood pressure, cholesterol etc.
Recent video with Dr Attia and Rhonda Patrick about protein, but they briefly discuss Rapamycin and bring in viewpoints of other scientists who feel there just isn’t adequate evidence that Rapa does anything in humans.
I agree with Rhonda when she essentially says “worm and fly studies are meaningless”.
That’s why we have mouse and marmoset studies. Human studies have shown benefits as well. Since you’ll never have true human longevity data for any drug, you place your bets with the knowledge you have.
Maybe people will look back in 50 years and say ‘Wow. Those people who took Rapamycin are breaking all those longevity records. Maybe there’s something to this. It could be better than booze and yoghurt!’
Yes - I think most of us agree with that. Interesting from a scientific standpoint, but little else. Of course, mouse, rat, dog and marmoset data is something else entirely.
I think there are questions about the validity of using studies in mice to determine longevity in humans.
I’ve been looking at some articles on predicted vs actual lifespan of animals. Mice live a bit shorter than expected, and humans live longer than expected. Thus it may be easier to extend lifespan in mice.
Some of you guys come up with the weirdest conspiracy theories where you question everyone’s motives. Attia is one of the realest ones there is. He gives his educated opinions and has never once made anything up as a result of some ulterior motive. Not everyone is an asshole like some of you guys think.
Promoting Athletic Greens, David bars, and Maui Nui processed meat sticks isn’t ulterior motive? Even if you cut him some slack on that, you should stop taking him seriously the moment you see his protein recommendations.
Also, just from the fact that the guy’s in his 50s and suddenly decides to cover his arm in tattoos, or thinks recapping his movie nights with Kevin Spacey in his IG captions makes him look cool, you should realize that he’s not all there mentally.
