As I have previously posted I have been taking lithium orotate since the late 80s or early 90s, can’t really remember. The brand I am taking claims to deliver 5mg elemental lithium per tablet.
I take 3 tablets daily.
I was taking it for “anger management” issues I was having while driving in Germany, at least my wife thought so,. I really do believe it reduces quickness to anger and dramatic mood swings.
So, I have been taking it with rapamycin since early November 2021.
I did notice my lipid levels increase after I started taking rapamycin.
Seems relatively safe, at least for me.
A toxicological evaluation of lithium orotate
“Lithium orotate, the salt of lithium and orotic acid, has been marketed for decades as a supplemental source of lithium with few recorded adverse events”
There is just a whole lot of variability with Lithium levels as noted in bipolar patient populations, even when dosed carefully such that ER visits are common.
Now of course you are taking a much, much lower dose than bipolar patients (300 mg?), so the relative safety will likely be much higher. But just pointing out that there is no guarantee that this will apply to everyone (there is plenty of genetic variabilities) or that it will be safe, not to mention - a lot of possible drug-drug interactions - adding a new supplement or drug can increase the risk of bipolar patients going to the ED by 30x.
Did you check lithium levels via low-cost fingerprick and lipid panels with and without rapamycin? Have you noticed effects at lower doses? Would be curious if you can share.
If you also have any lab work with Urinalysis, eGFR / Creatinine / blood urea nitrogen, thyroid / TSH, and parathyroid / calcium function. Even ECG would be nice before and after.
It does seem to support some extra healthspan in male mice specifically with some clues to MOA corroborating other mice studies i.e. suggestive of prevention of renal inflammation and delayed age-related loss of glucose tolerance via GSK-3 inhibition and proteostasis. The GSK-3beta hippocampal data is in agreement with previous mice studies. The rotarod performance was increased which could be suggestive of neuroprotective effects, but the fat loss sort of threw it off.
They didn’t really check everything associated with other mice studies - there was anti-neuroinflammatory via NFKB from GSK-3 inhibition, reduced oxidative stress via NRF2, proteostasis via IMPA inhibition induced autophagy, neurogenesis via CREB/BDNF and Wnt.
I’d also note for context - mice tend to die of cancer especially based on their stated 20 C protocol (normally at ~30 C, so this is really cold for them) - not only that - the strain used is sensitive to cold conditions. This is important because they get cancer, but are less likely to die from CVD (see Lithium and GSK-3/Wnt). It might throw off lifespan results.
Mice also tend to lack external stress/lower ROS generation in those lab conditions (see Lithium and NRF2) while specifically, that strain doesn’t really have decent induction for NRF2. Mice also don’t get AD - so it’s kind of hard to say what to make of the human studies that suggest slowing of dementia.
Unfortunately, don’t have any before and after data to share. Because of Covid shot reactions, variable rapamycin, and a mild case of Covid. My blood work has been all over the place for the last two years. Also, factoring in other changes in my supplements I don’t think I have anything meaningful to share. These are some of my most recent results from 07/21/22
"I have to put on my Psychiatrist hat here and just mention that; 1. These are individuals with serious mental health conditions, and those conditions carry an increased probability of having a metabolic syndrome (increased lipids, obesity, etc.) (even if these individuals are untreated). 2. The “Other antipsychotic drug users” are likely on what we call “typical or atypical antipsychotics (risperidone, olanzapine, etc.),” which carry a markedly increased likelihood of metabolic syndrome and early death.
Lithium, by itself, for bipolar disorder, does not typically increase the risk of metabolic syndrome. So, in summary, I am saying that showing an increased lifespan in these subjects only on lithium compared to subjects taking typical or atypical antipsychotics cannot necessarily be generalized to adult subjects without one of these psychiatric conditions, if that makes sense.
I think that the biggest argument for micro-dosed lithium is that it improves your mood and therefore probably reduces stress levels. It is definitely beneficial for healthspan. If you get some extra lifespan mixed in there, then that’s a bonus. Remember, less stress is shown to lead to increased longevity.
Do you take Lithium Orotate on the same day you take Rapamycin, or do you stop taking lithium orotate on the day of or after? I am only taking 5mg Lithium Orotate but it helps me immensely. I saw here a potential interaction with lithium, but I am guessing that’s more of a problem with higher doses of lithium carbonate?
I take lithium orotate every day, including the days I take rapamycin. I take a very small dose or Lithium orotate. The drug interactions you link to are, I believe, most relevant for people taking high doses (100 to 600 times more than my dose) of lithium for other applications, like mental health issues. I don’t think its very relevant to the tiny doses we are taking. But - perhaps not a bad idea to skip lithium on rapamycin dosing days to be extra cautious.
I don’t think Lithium metabolises in the same way that other things do. Hence I would not think if taken daily it would really impact on Rapamycin taken weekly.
Its serum half life is around a day so you are going to have quite a bit hanging around from the previous days anyway. (roughly the same as the amount from the dose you miss out if indeed you do)
“Lithium is almost exclusively excreted via the kidney as a free ion and lithium clearance is considered to decrease with aging. No gender- or race-related differences in kinetics have been demonstrated. Renal insufficiency is associated with a considerable reduction in renal clearance of lithium and is considered a contraindication to its use, especially if a sodium-poor diet is required.”
FWIW Bryan Johnson also takes Lithium daily and he publishes his blood biomakers. You may get him to be more specific in the spirit of science. He has been responsive to me in the past.
I take Lithium too and will gladly ask my Dr to test for it next time I get my blood drawn. I am lucky the Dr pretty much tests for anything I want and insurance has been generous with covering pretty much everything so far.
I figured that the interaction potential was for high doses. I noticed a difference in my mood after just 2 days of taking 5mg. I’ll pause now and then when I take my rapamycin dose.
Do you contact Bryan through twitter? I see (according to blueprint) he takes 1mg. Maybe I can consider taking less and see how that goes. Been on 5mg/daily for almost a week and it has noticeably improved my mood!
See if you can get a really sensitive test. AIUI the levels for longevity are about 50 microMolar and many lithium tests find that close to the lowest threshold. The mental health lithium treatments aim for much higher concentrations.
. I really do believe it reduces quickness to anger and dramatic mood swings.
