5-HT2A antagonists to "block" the "trip" of LSD/DMT while keeping neuroplasticity / dendritic spine density benefits (Terran)

#1

Does anyone know how to source 5-HT2A antagonists?

Dendritic spine density goes down with aging but psychedelics have been the thing that most robustly increase it…

(“tripping” is disruptive, can be traumatic, can make you leak your training data [0], and can’t be done every day [though I know some people who do shrooms every week and are fine - I can’t even tell that they’re tripping when they talk to me… I, unfortunately, am not such a person, until I can become more emotionally neutral to social validation/“social defeat”/“needing or wanting attention”/not caring about making other people “lol”/unnecessary magical thinking that I mix in with ancient edgelord or 4chan input streams/not caring about what others think [1]]). The highest indicator of maturity (or integration) happens if you can trip without ever being disruptive or doing something you’d regret, but I am very very very far from that dynamic (nevermind that the most wholesome people who have seen the most in me [and have gone out of their way to help me] have come from Ivy League student psychedelics organizations…). Furthermore, I had a serious accident last year that while not directly caused by these things, still had these things as an upstream influence… [mostly due to magical thinking combined with me being massively egged on by someone else]

[0] Some people never do it
[1] Nick Cammarata says that they help you not care what others think, but they only reinforce this in me.

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#2

Look for drugs that are commonly referred to as ‘trip killers’, meaning they stop the trips. Of course those that are 5-HT2A antagonists, maybe Seroquel (Quetiapine)? I wouldn’t use anything that isn’t commonly discussed or used for this purpose. But these are probably very blunt and dirty and not as safe as what’s mentioned.

#3

Your best bet might be Ketanserin, an antihypertensive drug that acts as an antagonist of the 5-HT2A receptor that was clinically (well) researched for that purpose. It is mostly sold as research chemical it is not used for hypertension as a medicine anymore as far as I know.

#4

Seems to be another name for serotonin.

You could try a natural reducer.

#5

Serotonin is the natural ligand for 5-HT2A, I think it is then a 5-HT2a agonist, not antagonist.

That opens up a can of worms.

#6

Well I believe it is still regulated and registered as medicine but not marketed. It is (not commonly) available in hospital settings for various purposes.

#7

It is impossible to get without buying research chemicals then, and then you need to lab test it. I have other drugs on my list like CETP inhibitor I would like to buy but I avoid it for this reason.
Any other drug, that is available in pharmacies?

#8

Or just enjoy the trip?

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#9

This is not some underground substance made in some underground lab. It is produced by Merck and sold as pharmaceutical ingredient. As it is known for its potential as a ‘trip killer’ it can for sure be tested in any drug users center (they are really common around the world for responsible drug use) if buying from reputable source like SigmaAldrich would not be enough.

#10

So how can someone buy it? I think there is some practical limitation you are not mentioning here - which doesn’t really help your suggestion.

#11

IDK be resourceful. Get a friend who works in a research lab is your best bet. But there are some other options.
Don’t you think getting LSD or psilocybin in the first place might be also an resourceful undertaking too?

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#12

No that is easy, you just buy it with bitcoin.

#13

See, we can trade it. I can get you Ketanserin and you can get me LSD and psilocybin.

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#14

Have you tried Micro-Dosing? In other words take an imperceptible amount and gradually increase the dose from there. Your brain should adjust to the fractionally higher doses and you will have a better chance of benefiting from both the neurogenesis and the tripping in general which can offer a myriad of other benefits. I’m not sure if there is convincing research to suggest you can have one without the other?

#16

I don’t see what the problem is in caring what other people think. That is normal, if you obsess about it to the extent it causes regular negative valence then no.

#17

I mean, the more I care about something (or even put attention to something), the more I fuck it up…

It’s possible to, like, not care about it as much and do your own thing and let other people find your value for yourself even if you don’t try to win their attention

If there’s anything that I ever learned in life, it’s that my outcomes are consistently better the less I care about them (that’s why I’m so into “why greatness cannot be planned”). It isn’t the healthiest or ideal plan for most people (and maybe this could change with maturity/pattern-recognition), but it’s something that just works, and works better the more resourceful you are.\

[it’s also healthier than continuing to obsess over Peter Thiel :slight_smile: ]

[this also could be because I have a unique vibe, and have acted contrary to my vibe in many cases because I was overtrained on the “academic overachiever” value function, and then confused it for “value” well after it was causing me more problem than good]

(it’s also true that other people are better at doing most things than I am, the only thing I am easily better at is breadth and certain network properties [and this makes me surprising])

There’s the REBUS vs SEBUS theory of psychedelics: psychedelics often make many people more REBUS, and me more SEBUS. I don’t know a way out of it (right now) and don’t plan on tripping anytime soon.

==

If anything, I know thousands of people now, whereas I didn’t in the past. But I’ve caused my fair share of social messes (some which are too unique to be forgettable), and some have ripple effects, and the ripple effects continue to cause pain (even though, like, it’s easier to be more neutral the more you know)…

==

Anyways, timelines for MANY life-changing aspects of AI are near (even if AGI is still an uncertainty) and are more likely than not to turn a lot of historically shitty early-life training data (or trauma) into rounding errors.

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#18

Regarding tripping:

“…today one can’t responsibly advocate the use of major psychedelics. The risks to mental health are too high. “Bad trips” are an ever-present possibility for emotionally unenriched Darwinians. “Freak-outs” on LSD may befall even the psychologically robust. Informed consent prior to taking psychedelics is biologically impossible. This is because psychedelia is not just weirder than the drug-naïve mind conceives; it’s weirder than the drug-naïve mind can conceive. One can’t grasp, in advance, the nature of the sorts of experience to which one is nominally consenting. Yet in consequence of this taboo on chemically altered awareness, a host of unimaginably alien state spaces of consciousness remains off-limits. Trapped in the squalid psychochemical ghetto of Darwinian life, we lack the necessary wetware to conceptualise radically altered states of mind. We can’t explicitly represent such states. We haven’t even names for the strange new textures of selfhood and introspection that their metabolic pathways disclose. Alas pure reasoning is impotent to access their nature because it lacks the semantic primitives with which to do so. Yet when the vertebrate genome is rewritten, and gradients of genetically-preprogrammed bliss become the norm of mental health, our veil of ignorance can be safely ripped aside. Armed with exquisite cocktails of designer-drugs, even the most outlandish realms of psychedelia can then be investigated in depth. The study of consciousness can become a truly experimental scientific discipline. And crucially, the advent of post-Darwinian genotypes coding for invincible happiness offers a delightful prospect. At last we’ll be able safely to explore other-worldly forms of existence in the confidence that they will all, without exception, radiate the sparkle of earthly paradise…”

They are way too unpredictable IMO and people with higher schizo polygenic score/schizotypal genes( (i.e 80th percentile for schizophrenia at nebula.org) probably shouldn’t trip, for example.

That is why this is kind of interesting, but there is so little research / experience with it.

#19

I am starting to think that you have the brains of a rocket scientist.

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#20

It just requires knowledge, not much intelligence.

#21

You can readily purchase various LSD pro-drugs (1P-LSD, 1V-LSD, 1A-LSD, etc) under the research chemical guise. They are all hydrolyzed to LSD in the body, so the pharmacology is largely identical, and so long as they are not intended for human consumption, possessing them in personal quantities is generally legal.

Most of the these vendors are based in Canada and their websites are easily accessed with Google. This is a better option for most than outright buying LSD, which carries greater legal risks, and requires knowing your way around PGP and TOR.

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