I figured I would put my N of 1 in here. I just started using rapamycin today (4 mg), primarily for the goal of decreasing inflammation in muscles. I am 24 years old, a biochemistry student.
I have had severe muscle issues since I was prescribed levofloxacin almost 4 years ago. There are many FDA black box warnings on fluoroquinolone antibiotics, yet they are often unnecessarily prescribed. The toxicity of these antibiotics is thought to be of mitochondrial origin (a decent body of literature supports this).
I had severe muscle atrophy and exercise intolerance, luckily when I started mitochondrial targeted interventions (CoQ10, antioxidants) I improved majorly, my only remaining symptom is a lingering baseline level of muscle soreness/inflammation. This is improved by sauna, ice bath, and fasting, but only temporarily.
The benefit (attenuation of soreness and full muscle function restored) from an extended fast, during the fast, is the best I have seen; proof of concept that the symptoms are modifiable. I spoke to Dr. Kaeberlein and Dr. Green, both agreed a trial of rapamycin could have benefit.
I will post the correspondence from Matt as it may have interesting/useful information regarding the rapamycin-mitochondria-inflammation connection.
Any advice for me? Also, how do you folks generally handle resistance training and taking the weekly pill? I saw someone said they avoid training for 48 hours on each side of pill, but that only leaves about 3 days per week to train.
“Regarding effects of rapamycin on mitochondrial-induced inflammation, there are at least a couple of potential mechanisms supported by data in mice. First, mitochondrial damage can induce cellular senescence and rapamycin is a potent senomorphic. Second, rapamycin can suppress at least some forms of severe mitochondrial disease and associated neuroinflammation.
I don’t know if there is any data for similar effects in response to mitochondrial dysfunction in muscle, but it seems plausible.
As you’ve noted, like rapamycin fasting can have a potent anti=inflammatory mechanism. The downside to fasting is that it’s difficult to maintain lean mass unless you also do dedicated resistance training, and even then it’s tough. Rapamycin doesn’t seem to appreciably impact lean mass, which is a little surprising given the role of mTOR in muscle synthesis, but that’s what the data seem to be telling us.”
If you have muscle issues, I think l-carnosine and beta alanine are the two most effective supplements out there, including any medication also. I am a different person since I’ve started both about month ago. Give it a try. As far as rapamycin the effect is more subtle and you won’t notice much of a difference past the first or second day you take it. It will however help you stay healthy for longer in long term though, and hopefully increase lifespan also. At least I believe it.
Our results suggest that the microbiota modification aimed at reducing pro-inflammatory and increasing anti-inflammatory bacteria could potentially be a coadjuvant in treating inflammatory arthropathies.
So Levoflxacin appears useful for (at least some) bacteria triggered inflammation.
But an earlier paper suggests another possible concern…
In conclusion, we showed that levofloxacin and moxifloxacin can significantly increase the concentration of Candida species in the human gut. Hence, these agents should be used with caution in patients at risk for systemic fungal infections.
Could you have a fungal related infection?
If memory serves, fungal infection like Candida, thrive on sugars and carbohydrates.
Fasting could deprive them of sustenance.
Cold could reduce your carbohydrate load.
Rapamycin made virtually all of my pain go away after a few weeks.
I’m sure you have researched supplements that might help with inflammation of the muscles, etc., but here are a few in case you missed them.
Tart Cherry Juice Extract
Personally, I take 4-6mg Rapa each Sunday morning, my least active day with only 90m of tennis. I do HIIT training three times a week with a day in between each session. I do some exercise every day even if it’s only my daily walk and an hour of pilates. I have seen no negative impact from exercise that I would relate to Rapa.
Older people don’t want to be boosting mTOR1 with exercising whilst trying to suppress it with Rapamycin but that doesn’t appear to be what you are trying to achieve here.
Given your age, I would suggest just don’t exercise immediately after taking the Rapa for 6-8 hours but otherwise any other time should be fine.
I’m 30, taking 4 mg/week and exercise daily. Have not noticed any difference so far. I haven’t seen any evidence that you should avoid exercise after taking it, and while the mechanistic conjecture around not activating mtor while suppressing it could make sense, I could just as easily see the opposite being the case.
Also for what it’s worth, the day of rapamycin, which I usually take in the evening… I do my normal hour and 15 minute muscle resistance exercise…afterwards grill a pound of steak and have whole milk… about 2 hours later I will take my 2 mg rapa with GFJ. Which then gives me about a 6 to 8 mg dose in my blood system.
After I take my dose, I don’t work out the next day and then of course, because I work out in the evening that gives me almost 43 hours of non-exercise after taking rapa before hitting the gym again. I only do muscle resistance every other day. So I time my dose after gym… knowing I will be off for a day plus.
Works for me past 3+ years! Muscle gains and strength.
Hi @RapAdmin I was wondering if you have heard of anyone having increased soreness after starting rapa, I also am especially hungry, particularly for carbs…that one seems to be a more normal side effect.
I also started with 4mg which may have been too high of a starting dose for my current health situation. I will probably do 2mg next time. I see that you slowly ramped up to 6mg over 6 months.
For many of us, taking rapamycin in the afternoon or evening can completely ruin (or eliminate the need for) sleep. I find the morning is the only time I can take it. Agetron is rather rare here in that it works for him in the evening.
My rational for evening dosing of rapamycin.
With 200 kinds of cells… approximately 36 trillion in the average male body. Dr. David Sabatini in the last Peter Attia…The Drive Podcast says MTOR 1 is in every cell… even red blood cells (RBCs) and platelets.
I feel dosing and getting that initial blast of cleansing benefit is maximized while my body is in a resting state - makes sense to me.
The next morning I can feel the effects, as my body is tired and I feel a bit out of sorts… thinking needing more focus … very aware of being in the moment.
I do occasionally take rapamycin dose in the morning if I am getting a Labcorp test for rapamycin in my system. Otherwise, I am a strictly night taker.
Because I am now on zydus, I will do a Labcorp test in the next week to see how this rates in me with GFJ. I have been on sirolimus, rapamune and now zydus.
I found sirolimus and rapamune pretty equal in potency through Labcorp testing. Time to check zydus.
@Inflamedguy I don’t have specific advice re: rapamycin as you already are doing it the way I would. But for your mitochondrial issues I’d recommend you look into methylene blue and red light photobiomodulation as synergistic modalities. Look up each on pubmed alone or in combination with reference to mitochondria and you might see the appeal. A very good red light panel costs around $300 shipped from China and maybe $500 from Amazon so it’s not cheap but doesn’t break the bank either. And methylene blue is very cheap.
Oh I guess about Rapa especially if it’s making you crave carbs more, perhaps consider adding metformin or acarbose to the mix.
Please spread the word about fluoroquinolone antibiotics. I teach at a nursing college where several of my students already work in healthcare, and they are always surprised that fluoroquinolones have been deemed dangerous by both the FDA and the European Drugs Registry. They are not supposed to be used unless as a last resort; and yet, Cipro is prescribed like water. They can lead to permanent brain damage, paralysis… this is not your standard antibiotic side effects situation. There are lots of different antibiotics, and unless you are dealing with a highly drug-resistant strain, they should be able to find a non-fluroquinolone antibiotic that works.
Ugh I didn’t realize Cipro was among them. I feel sure now that I’ve been prescribed it for maybe a UTI a few years ago, back when I was a very passive patient and unquestionably took whatever my doc gave me. I just emailed my old doctor to see if I can get access to my old patient records to confirm but the name sounds very familiar. Any advice on what one can do who’s already had it to repair the damage?