Dr Stanfield is my go to on longevity supplements. On any study he will check the data against the conclusion and at times find that the data does not support the conclusion. And it is the conclusion that makes it into the media supported or not by the data.
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I have a friend who’s making it in capsule dose now (has access to private labs) - what dose would you want it to be in?
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Would a pharmacy be able to buy 17a…? How about an MD? DVM?
Asking for a frustrated friend. Any ideas appreciated.
I’m guessing dosing would be microscopic. Anyone have guidance on this by body weight and frequency?
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50mcg. Does your friend have any dosage/frequency guidance? 100 caps?
I don’t think so. Its just a chemical right now (in the US) - it hasn’t gone through any FDA approval process yet, so isn’t part of the medical / pharma supply chain.
In Europe I think its only available / approved as a hair growth / topical formulation. So that doesn’t help us much.
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I am not at all familiar with these hormone issues but wouldn’t any possible feminization of a male likely be both pretty obvious and also reversable upon cessation of 17ae?
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I suspect it would be mostly if not fully reversible in the short term and if one takes it long enough, some gynecomastia and reduced fertility is probably irreversible. Assumption is that male-to-female transgender case reports translate.
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So, earlier in this thread its been discussed that you want to be careful, if buying 17-alpha estradiol from a lab supply company, regarding the potential for there to be a certain percentage of 17-beta estradiol mixed into the drug because they are likely manufactured together. Given the feminizing impact of the 17-beta estradiol is over 100X more powerful than that of the 17-alpha estradiol, there is obviously a certain risk if the percentage of the “beta” compound is more than a small portion of the total. For this reason we were talking about testing the samples for percentages of alpha and beta estradiol in what is ostensibly marketed as “17 alpha estradiol”.
Hypothetically, it seems that one could take a similar approach with 17AE that people are doing with rapamycin; that is, using the blood sirolimus level tests to confirm at a general level that the the drug they are getting is in fact rapamycin, and the levels are getting high enough in their system.
With 17AE, what might be some blood test markers that a person might want to track (say with monthly testing) to see if the percent of amount of the “beta” estradiol may be higher than desirable? Would a higher 17 beta estradiol impact testosterone levels? Is there another, better indicator of “feminization” going on that would be something that people may want to track over time?
Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
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Bummer. 
I give up.
Hi everyone,
I just completed my first 100 days of 17aE2, 1mg per day,
I felt my brain more faster and vivid (especially in afternoons), and indeed I’ve been more productive, in terms of both research and clinical activities.
I am thinking about changing into sublingual way with the concentration of 1mg /50uL (20mg/1mL DMSO) , taking 50uL a day with a micropipette. I guess this way would be easier to store, to take exact amount per day, to improve bioavailability.
Will post updates soon.
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Hi @DrEcsta ,
Thanks for the update. Great to hear that things are going well for you. You’re the first person to be posting updates on their use of 17 alpha estradiol. You had mentioned previously that you got the product from a Lab supply company.
One of my concerns is that since estradiol is a chiral molecule and both 17 alpha and beta estradiol are usually manufactured together (I have no idea how they separate them), but one of my concerns is that since 17 beta estradiol is about 100X more “feminizing” than 17 alpha estradiol, if there is any significant level (even a few percent) of 17 beta estradiol we may get some feminizing effects. I’m not sure how to measure this via blood tests, but I wanted to see if you are planning to do any blood tests to check to see if you might be exposed to higher levels (than desirable) of 17 beta estradiol?
Google tells me that " Normal total estradiol levels in men are somewhere between 20–55 pg/mL (2.0–5.5 ng/dL) and 10-40 pg/mL (1.0-4.0 ng/dL), depending on whom you ask." (research paper here: Age-Specific Serum Total and Free Estradiol Concentrations in Healthy Men in US Nationally Representative Samples | Journal of the Endocrine Society | Oxford Academic )
Will you check your estradiol levels at some point to see if this might be an issue?
Seems like blood tests are easily and inexpensively ($30 to $60) available:
Dosing
A second question I had relates to dosing.
Obviously the dosing you are doing right now require measuring devices and equipment that most of us do not currently have. But - I just checked and at least for micro-pipettes, the cost is pretty reasonable ($14 on Amazon).
For those of us also thinking of trying 17 Alpha Estradiol, is there other equipment that we would need to purchase to measure out and dose this properly?
From your last post, it sounds like all we might need are a mg scale, micro-pipette device, and DMSO. Anything else?
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As I am working as a geriatrician in a teaching hospital, I may order my blood E2 level soon. Cayman chem says “Purity
≥98%”, so if 17bE2 constitutes for the remaining 2%, this may lead to a little bit feminizing effect that I think ok. Anyhow, I do not recognize any feminizing effect yet. I am using Gilson micropipette (~100uL), to get 50uL per day (sublingual) in our lab. There are a lot of cheap/used pipettes that can be purchased in ebay. I used a microgram scale in lab, but think miligram scale can be also ok. May also require 1.5mL Eppendorf tubes (light protection if needed) for aliquot. Also, vortexing was required for dissolve.
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Hello DrEcsta, really appreciate the update, I follow your way to make 17-alpha estradiol in DMSO with the concentration of 20mg/1mL, is it safe to put 20mg/1mL DMSO directly under sublingual? Or do I need to dilute 20mg/1mL DMSO first, then put it under sublingual?
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Hi, I started taking 50uL of the solution (20mg/1mL) sublingually without further dilution by any solvent (as DMSO is relatively inert solvent), and I found no obvious effect (such as mucosal irritation) yet.
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Is it a risk to administer Pantostin 0.25mg/ml sublingually?
Propan-2-ol, Glycerol 85 %, myo-Inositol, gereinigtes Wasser
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/30997-Pantostin-Solution/dp/B007A1B4PW
Mode of action of Pantostin
The active ingredient Alfatradiol is used to balance an estrogen deficiency in the scalp. The presence of estradiol (female sex hormone) acts like a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor. This inhibits the action of excessive male sex hormone and reduces the formation of dihydrotestosterone (DHT). This is important because the immoderate amount of DHT is one of the main causes of hereditary hair loss.
Alfatradiol is a successful topical solution because of its relatively fast onset of action. After a continuous use for approximately twelve weeks, the product has been clinically shown to noticeably increase the hair growth and reduce hair loss. It must be applied for a longer duration to reduce hair loss. Once it is stopped, previously recovered hair will be lost again. Therefore, it should be used continuously for the rest of life.
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I don’t “think” we want to be taking the hair tonic formulation that includes 17-alpha estradiol.
As you mentioned, here are the ingredients they list in the german document you linked to. It doesn’t tell you the quantities of each (or proportion) - so its a little hard to know, but probably lots of water.
Was pantostin enthält:
Der Wirkstoff ist:
1 ml pantostin enthält
Alfatradiol 0,25 mg
Die sonstigen Bestandteile sind:
Propan-2-ol, Glycerol 85 %, myo-Inositol, gereinigtes Wasser
Wie pantostin aussieht und Inhalt der Packung:
pantostin ist als Lösung in Flaschen zu 100 ml, 2 x 100 ml und 3 x 100 ml (jeweils mit Kopfhaut-Applikator) erhältlich.
Google translate tells me this is, in english:
What pantostin contains:
The active ingredient is:
1 ml pantostin contains
Alfatradiol 0.25 mg
The other ingredients are:
Propan-2-ol, glycerol 85%, myo-inositol, purified water
What pantostin looks like and contents of the pack
pantostin is available as a solution in bottles of 100 ml, 2 x 100 ml and 3 x 100 ml (each with a scalp applicator).
Here are some assessments on the toxicity of the different compounds:
Glycerol
The weight of evidence indicates that glycerol is of low toxicity when ingested, inhaled or in contact with the skin. Glycerol is of a low order of acute oral and dermal toxicity with LD50 values in excess of 4000 mg/kg bw . (source: https://hpvchemicals.oecd.org/ui/handler.axd?id=4b0a2d87-3183-40d4-84f5-0e118c647b19 )
Propan-2-ol
Is propan 2 ol drinkable?
It has a slightly bitter taste, and is not safe to drink.
Source: Isopropyl alcohol - Wikipedia
Myo-inositol
Are there any dangers associated with taking inositol? Inositol is generally considered safe in adults. Side effects, if any, tend to be mild and may include nausea, stomach pain, tiredness, headache, and dizziness . Most side effects occur with doses greater than 12 grams per day.
Source: Inositol: Benefits, Side Effects, Dosage, Interactions
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It appears that the 17-alpha estradiol powder pretty stable and can be stored for a long period of time without problems. Once its mixed with DMSO it seems to have a pretty short life. But its a bit of a hassle to do the mixture; people probably don’t want to be making this every day.
Going forward, Do you plan to make a week or two of this formula, and store it (in a refrigerator or freezer) for use, then make another batch?
I’m just trying to figure out the practical implementation aspects of this.
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And it looks like a “vortex” machine is easy and cheap to get: ($39)
Similarly to 1.5mL Eppendorf tubes ($16 for 500 of the 1.5ml)
And yes, Gibson micropipettes (50 to 200uL) easy to get on ebay for about $40:
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Great info gathered here!! Just as DrEsta I am going to take 17aE2, 1mg per day. I bought 1g of this;
9797638_CoA_LABO_9797638_22A10-F02-381372.pdf (1.8 MB)
Since I work in a lab, I will use the same administration method as DrEsta. I will take an extensive blood test before starting of course
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Hi Ludovic,
Great to hear you’re planning to test 17-Alpha Estradiol. How much did 1 gram cost?
Also, Please try to gather as much data (pre and post testing) - perhaps similar to what @qBx123Yk did here: My Lab and Fitness Results After 3 months of Rapamycin Use
Please try to make it a clean test so you know if its actually working for you (i.e. don’t change anything else in your supplement / drug stack so you know any changes are likely due to the 17AE. )
The better our data is for our personal experiments like this, the more we can all learn from them!
Please also share your testing plan as you develop it.
It seems that we want to test in two or three general areas; benefits (given the past studies, where would we expect to see measureable beneficial changes in physiology), negative side effects to watch for (e.g. testosterone reduction, increases in beta-estradiol (estradiol) levels), and then also just validation that the 17AE is actually getting into our bodies systemically… and this seems like it might be a little more difficult to measure given the apparent lack of commercial/consumer blood tests for 17AE. Given this lack, can anyone think of any good ways to identify (via some sort of blood test) whether the 17AE is actually getting into our blood system, and at what level? This would be valuable to know as we test different dosing levels.
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