Hi everyone,
I just completed my first 100 days of 17aE2, 1mg per day,
I felt my brain more faster and vivid (especially in afternoons), and indeed I’ve been more productive, in terms of both research and clinical activities.
I am thinking about changing into sublingual way with the concentration of 1mg /50uL (20mg/1mL DMSO) , taking 50uL a day with a micropipette. I guess this way would be easier to store, to take exact amount per day, to improve bioavailability.
Will post updates soon.
Hi @DrEcsta ,
Thanks for the update. Great to hear that things are going well for you. You’re the first person to be posting updates on their use of 17 alpha estradiol. You had mentioned previously that you got the product from a Lab supply company.
One of my concerns is that since estradiol is a chiral molecule and both 17 alpha and beta estradiol are usually manufactured together (I have no idea how they separate them), but one of my concerns is that since 17 beta estradiol is about 100X more “feminizing” than 17 alpha estradiol, if there is any significant level (even a few percent) of 17 beta estradiol we may get some feminizing effects. I’m not sure how to measure this via blood tests, but I wanted to see if you are planning to do any blood tests to check to see if you might be exposed to higher levels (than desirable) of 17 beta estradiol?
Google tells me that " Normal total estradiol levels in men are somewhere between 20–55 pg/mL (2.0–5.5 ng/dL) and 10-40 pg/mL (1.0-4.0 ng/dL), depending on whom you ask." (research paper here: Age-Specific Serum Total and Free Estradiol Concentrations in Healthy Men in US Nationally Representative Samples | Journal of the Endocrine Society | Oxford Academic )
Will you check your estradiol levels at some point to see if this might be an issue?
Seems like blood tests are easily and inexpensively ($30 to $60) available:
A second question I had relates to dosing.
Obviously the dosing you are doing right now require measuring devices and equipment that most of us do not currently have. But - I just checked and at least for micro-pipettes, the cost is pretty reasonable ($14 on Amazon).
For those of us also thinking of trying 17 Alpha Estradiol, is there other equipment that we would need to purchase to measure out and dose this properly?
From your last post, it sounds like all we might need are a mg scale, micro-pipette device, and DMSO. Anything else?
As I am working as a geriatrician in a teaching hospital, I may order my blood E2 level soon. Cayman chem says “Purity
≥98%”, so if 17bE2 constitutes for the remaining 2%, this may lead to a little bit feminizing effect that I think ok. Anyhow, I do not recognize any feminizing effect yet. I am using Gilson micropipette (~100uL), to get 50uL per day (sublingual) in our lab. There are a lot of cheap/used pipettes that can be purchased in ebay. I used a microgram scale in lab, but think miligram scale can be also ok. May also require 1.5mL Eppendorf tubes (light protection if needed) for aliquot. Also, vortexing was required for dissolve.
Hello DrEcsta, really appreciate the update, I follow your way to make 17-alpha estradiol in DMSO with the concentration of 20mg/1mL, is it safe to put 20mg/1mL DMSO directly under sublingual? Or do I need to dilute 20mg/1mL DMSO first, then put it under sublingual?
Hi, I started taking 50uL of the solution (20mg/1mL) sublingually without further dilution by any solvent (as DMSO is relatively inert solvent), and I found no obvious effect (such as mucosal irritation) yet.
Is it a risk to administer Pantostin 0.25mg/ml sublingually?
Propan-2-ol, Glycerol 85 %, myo-Inositol, gereinigtes Wasser
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/30997-Pantostin-Solution/dp/B007A1B4PW
Mode of action of Pantostin
The active ingredient Alfatradiol is used to balance an estrogen deficiency in the scalp. The presence of estradiol (female sex hormone) acts like a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor. This inhibits the action of excessive male sex hormone and reduces the formation of dihydrotestosterone (DHT). This is important because the immoderate amount of DHT is one of the main causes of hereditary hair loss.
Alfatradiol is a successful topical solution because of its relatively fast onset of action. After a continuous use for approximately twelve weeks, the product has been clinically shown to noticeably increase the hair growth and reduce hair loss. It must be applied for a longer duration to reduce hair loss. Once it is stopped, previously recovered hair will be lost again. Therefore, it should be used continuously for the rest of life.
I don’t “think” we want to be taking the hair tonic formulation that includes 17-alpha estradiol.
As you mentioned, here are the ingredients they list in the german document you linked to. It doesn’t tell you the quantities of each (or proportion) - so its a little hard to know, but probably lots of water.
Was pantostin enthält:
Der Wirkstoff ist:
1 ml pantostin enthält
Alfatradiol 0,25 mg
Die sonstigen Bestandteile sind:
Propan-2-ol, Glycerol 85 %, myo-Inositol, gereinigtes Wasser
Wie pantostin aussieht und Inhalt der Packung:
pantostin ist als Lösung in Flaschen zu 100 ml, 2 x 100 ml und 3 x 100 ml (jeweils mit Kopfhaut-Applikator) erhältlich.
Google translate tells me this is, in english:
What pantostin contains:
The active ingredient is:
1 ml pantostin contains
Alfatradiol 0.25 mg
The other ingredients are:
Propan-2-ol, glycerol 85%, myo-inositol, purified water
What pantostin looks like and contents of the pack
pantostin is available as a solution in bottles of 100 ml, 2 x 100 ml and 3 x 100 ml (each with a scalp applicator).
Here are some assessments on the toxicity of the different compounds:
Glycerol
The weight of evidence indicates that glycerol is of low toxicity when ingested, inhaled or in contact with the skin. Glycerol is of a low order of acute oral and dermal toxicity with LD50 values in excess of 4000 mg/kg bw . (source: https://hpvchemicals.oecd.org/ui/handler.axd?id=4b0a2d87-3183-40d4-84f5-0e118c647b19 )
Propan-2-ol
Is propan 2 ol drinkable?
It has a slightly bitter taste, and is not safe to drink.
Source: Isopropyl alcohol - Wikipedia
Myo-inositol
Are there any dangers associated with taking inositol? Inositol is generally considered safe in adults. Side effects, if any, tend to be mild and may include nausea, stomach pain, tiredness, headache, and dizziness . Most side effects occur with doses greater than 12 grams per day.
Source: Inositol: Benefits, Side Effects, Dosage, Interactions
It appears that the 17-alpha estradiol powder pretty stable and can be stored for a long period of time without problems. Once its mixed with DMSO it seems to have a pretty short life. But its a bit of a hassle to do the mixture; people probably don’t want to be making this every day.
Going forward, Do you plan to make a week or two of this formula, and store it (in a refrigerator or freezer) for use, then make another batch?
I’m just trying to figure out the practical implementation aspects of this.
And it looks like a “vortex” machine is easy and cheap to get: ($39)
Similarly to 1.5mL Eppendorf tubes ($16 for 500 of the 1.5ml)
And yes, Gibson micropipettes (50 to 200uL) easy to get on ebay for about $40:
Great info gathered here!! Just as DrEsta I am going to take 17aE2, 1mg per day. I bought 1g of this;
9797638_CoA_LABO_9797638_22A10-F02-381372.pdf (1.8 MB)
Since I work in a lab, I will use the same administration method as DrEsta. I will take an extensive blood test before starting of course
Hi Ludovic,
Great to hear you’re planning to test 17-Alpha Estradiol. How much did 1 gram cost?
Also, Please try to gather as much data (pre and post testing) - perhaps similar to what @qBx123Yk did here: My Lab and Fitness Results After 3 months of Rapamycin Use
Please try to make it a clean test so you know if its actually working for you (i.e. don’t change anything else in your supplement / drug stack so you know any changes are likely due to the 17AE. )
The better our data is for our personal experiments like this, the more we can all learn from them!
Please also share your testing plan as you develop it.
It seems that we want to test in two or three general areas; benefits (given the past studies, where would we expect to see measureable beneficial changes in physiology), negative side effects to watch for (e.g. testosterone reduction, increases in beta-estradiol (estradiol) levels), and then also just validation that the 17AE is actually getting into our bodies systemically… and this seems like it might be a little more difficult to measure given the apparent lack of commercial/consumer blood tests for 17AE. Given this lack, can anyone think of any good ways to identify (via some sort of blood test) whether the 17AE is actually getting into our blood system, and at what level? This would be valuable to know as we test different dosing levels.
Hi,
it cost me 180 euro so that’s 193 dollar. I will definately include beta-estradiol in my before and after blood tests. Testorerone reduction will not be assessable in my case, because I am on TRT. After 3 months if I notice no side effects, I plan to up the dose to 2mg/day , because I really believe in this compound. I will also post my total Regime here next week:
Bryan Johnson is taking a non-feminizing estrogen which they claim is available OTC in some countries for hair regrowth. Applied weekly.
Yes that is likely 17AE. With luck we will be able get it also 17 Alpha Estradiol: Use and Dosing Experiences - #20 by RickCohenMD
An anyone comment in detail on the relative merits (generally) of delivering hormone supplementation via oral, topical cream or patch, or injection… Is there one way that is clearly better or more cost effective? (from our experience with female estradiol use, or male testosterone supplementation).
For Europeans 300 ml Pantostin costs 47 USD excluding shipping, which at 0.25 mg / ml would be 75 doses of 1 mg. Around 20 USD a month for 1 mg a day or 7 mg once a week, if everything is absorbed and is correct. OTC.
For Americans it’s apparently possible to buy it on Ebay from Germany, but shipping will probably cost a lot.
Anyone have thoughts on using Pantostin topically for 17α-Estradiol?
In terms of testosterone I think injection is probably most effective but annoying to do. Oral I would avoid, I believe it can hurt the liver. Patches sound convenient, I see that’s what Bryan Johnson is using
Gotta agree with Kris.
Weekly injection - in thigh…switch legs each week. My dose is 1 ml 200 mg.
Almost 4 years now… helps maintain toned body… no fat…and muscles maintaied… strength solid.
My body toned appearance looks exact same … no physical change or feel any different in 4 years of use. Hanging in suspension. Which is great at 65 years.
I see a variety of physicians for urology, manual body adjustment, dermatology and those who assist them. All amazed at my extreme good shape and know I am on rapamycin.
I am not a gym hulk… I am a solid, shredded, veined out tone guy. I asked one young doc do I looked toned for my age? His reply, “You looked toned for any age!”
It definitely works well in combination with rapamycin. I like to think any negatves of testosterone are countered by rapamycin. Keeping heart and blood in great shape.
I was reluctant to start TRT… bad press and such… a lot of that previous attitude is changed. Old men need more testosterone to function healthier. You lose T as you get older… it significantly can help in your health and vitality.
My advice for 50 years and up…if you are thinking you might need a boost… you probably do.
Hi DrEcsta,
I appreciate reading about your experience with 17-Alpha Estradiol, and getting your recommendations for its preparation and dosing. After reading through your posts, I have a few questions:
• Early on you had an acne breakout and cut back from 1mg to 0.5mg daily. What happened to the acne? What made you decide to resume taking 1mg per day?
• When you wrote that you’d been taking 1mg/day of 17aE2 for 100 days, had you been taking orally after dissolution in DMSO and then mixed with MCT oil?
• If so, and if you were getting good results, why did you switch to taking it sublingually?
• Have your results with 1mg/day sublingual 17aE2 been worse, equal, or better than when taking it orally with MCT oil?
Thank you!
It would be interesting to know why Bryan is taking it weekly. Does 17AE have any side effects that warrant dosing it weekly? Or isn’t that why rapa is typically used weekly or biweekly?
