I think it’s worth pointing out that a number of papers incorrectly claim that 17α-E2 and 17β-E2 are enantiomers, which would imply that they have identical physical properties.
Enantiomers are inverted at all chiral centers, whereas 17α-E2 and 17β-E2 are only inverted at C17, which makes them diastereomers. Because of this they have different physical properties, which in principle usually makes them easier to separate, although in practice it can still be quite difficult.
I’m reaching out to see how many people are actually interested in participating in this group buy if we end up doing it?
I’m interested. Who else?
I’m still hearing back from different vendors.
I’ve heard back from Janoshik on testing, but maybe people know other vendors that might be more appropriate for this task.
My thoughts are we get samples from all vendors that seem good, send those to a testing facility. The one that comes up best we then do a group buy. We figure out how much of the molecule everyone wants and make the order.
I’ve never done a group buy though, so I’m not 100% sure on the logistics of this from that point onwards so hopefully someone more experienced can help explain this process.
Are you in Australia? That would complicate things greatly. Australian customs is notorious.
Yes I agree. If enough people are interested we may be able to have someone else actually ship things out. I would rather not run it all through Australia any more than necessary.
Premenopausal women are less sensitive than men or postmenopausal women to acute kidney injury (AKI), which is characterized by renal tubule ferroptosis and nephron loss. Tonnus et al . uncovered two mechanisms through which estrogen limited ferroptosis of renal tubule cells in female mice after ischemia-reperfusion injury (IRI). Renal IRI induced more tubule ferroptosis in male and ovariectomized females compared with intact females, and treatment with a pharmacological inhibitor of ferroptosis reduced kidney damage in male, but not female, mice. Two hydroxylated derivatives of 17β-estradiol, 2OH-E2 and 4OH-E2, protected cultured cells from pharmacological induction of ferroptosis, acted as radical-trapping antioxidants in vitro, and were enriched in the renal tubules of female mice. In renal tubules explanted from mice after IRI, 2OH-E2 protected male tissues against cell damage and death but did not further protect female tissues. Genomic actions of estrogen also contributed to its protective effects, because female mice lacking the intracellular 17β-estradiol receptor ESR1 showed more tubule ferroptosis and kidney damage in response to renal IRI compared with wild-type female mice. ESR1-mediated genomic estrogen signaling reduced both the turnover of the endogenous antiferroptotic molecule GSSH and the biosynthesis of ether lipids, which are substrates for peroxidation and increase the susceptibility to ferroptosis. Experiments in male and ovariectomized female mice and in renal biopsies from male, premenopausal female, and postmenopausal female patients were consistent with these protective genomic effects of estrogen being absent in male and postmenopausal females. Thus, estrogen protects against ferroptosis and AKI through both nongenomic and genomic mechanisms.
Count me in. Do we have a price range for the testing?
Janoshik said $500.
I’ve not had enough people express interest for this to be viable.
Greetings. I am wondering if you are still doing the 17 Alpha estradiol with the transcutaneous Ell-Cranell Alfatradiol cream and ethoxydiglycol? If you are, would you be so kind to update your results after this lengthy time period? Any good or poor results? Feminization? Thanks.
Has anyone in these boards used (or is using) 17-Alpha Estradiol, and if so how would one source it?
That’s exactly what I am trying to learn. From my reading here, a hair loss solution available in Europe (but not the USA) can be purchased. It can be mixed with another chemical to improve transcutaneous absorption. I have placed an order with 24Chemist and am awaiting shipment. I will post here when/if I receive it.
I received the Pantostin with 0.25% Alfatradiol yesterday from 24Chemist in Portugal. It took only 8 days from the time I placed the order. They ship to US only with Fedex International Expedited. No tariff paid. This product contains only the alpha isomer. Since I have some male pattern alopecia I will begin applying to my scalp. I’ve ordered transcutol as well (delivery pending) that will enhance transcutaeuous absorption.
Its strange that such a high-ranked intervention almost completely unused by community. Seems like almost nobody tried such a simple recipe - german pantostin, transdermal, 2-3ml per day.
It’s such a low concentration.
Still I think 17 alpha estradiol deserves a deeper dive. It had such promising effects. Estrogen has such positive effects but for men too much will have negative effects. Non-feminizing estrogen would be massive.
I feel like it would be similar for a “non-feminizing” progesterone.
Why do you think its low? Brian Johnson made 4,5mg per week. 2ml is 3,5mg per week, 3ml is 5,2mg per week. We still don’t know how many % goes through skin, but… We do not know too much to not to act at all)
We must believe in good and try)
Have you tried it?
Hope to get it from Germany soon. Pantostin.
Don’t want all these fancy things with China, when we speak about hormones. Who knows how many beta isomers in alfa powder. At least Pantostin will be alfatradiol for sure.
Still, I do not understand why people don’t use this when they use so many obscure compounds. For example, if you have Apoe4 it makes even more sense. @RapAdmin recently shared this link.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s43856-025-00942-3
17AE can make the Apoe4 phenotype look like Apoe3, which is enormous advantage.
When you say it is “too much is negative”, could you elaborate? I haven’t found any negative data on 17 alpha estradiol, only protective effects. Obviously if you take too much you start having too high shbg, low free t and high estradiol, but if not, i only see protective results.
Hope to get it from Germany soon. Pantostin.
Don’t want all these fancy things with China, when we speak about hormones. Who knows how many beta isomers in alfa powder. At least Pantostin will be alfatradiol for sure.
Have you tried estriol? I need to try it and find if it has a bigger impact on shbg.
Please see my posts above. I have been applying Pantostin to my scalp mixed with transcutol for about 5 months. I’ve not noticed any adverse (or good) effects either.