What am I missing?

You are definitely too young to be considering TRT unless your numbers are low. You have all the physiological advantages right now. Give yourself 20 more years.

The scale is the scale and does not place my numbers as high. Yes I am a high normal - but normal. I am high normal across the board in B-12, D and about any other measure.

Refuting tests and norm scales seems you are ignoring current medicine and are arbitrarily creating your own idea of high. Been on TRT going on 5-years. It has been a benefit.

You wrote: “Your body will start converting excess testosterone into estrogen to help compensate,” says McDevitt. “Estrogen is a proliferative hormone, meaning it likes to get cells to grow. Too much estrogen in a male body is not a good thing; it can cause erectile dysfunction, or low libido.”

My libido is excellent at 65 years. Blood Presseure normal (not counting after my rapamycine dose when it goes up for a bit)… and in blood tests - my estrogen too. Yes - that is normal… Which is why you get monitored when under treatment - including rapamycin monitoring. I am under a physcians care - a little less wild west for me. I am guessing most on here - unfortunately don’t take or do 1/3 of the testing that I do. Or, the frequency.

You wrote: “If you think about bodybuilders who are doping, they always have injuries and this is why,” says McDevitt. “It’s just too much.”

Different studies show that therapeutic doses of anabolic steroids have no effect on muscle strength and athletes’ performance, but the bodybuilders use 10 to 50 times of therapeutic doses.

So yes they are destroying themselves - we not comparing like doses - to like doses.

Adverse cardiovascular events and mortality in men during testosterone…

We found no evidence that testosterone increased short-term to medium-term cardiovascular risks in men with hypogonadism, but there is a paucity of data evaluating its long-term safety.

Here is an added caveat - just perhaps… any possible damage in blood, estrogen and B/P etc. – just thinking if so… the rapamycin is already counteracting and addressing and adjusting. I know from private messages
– many on here self prescribing rapamycin are on TRT too. And, won’t state it because of the attacking responses - that just a few people on here are willing to give ad nauseum. Many will take take unproven rapamycin with few human clinical trials - but reject TRT with decades of human use… and no significant issues. Gobsmacked.

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@Agetron sorry if you misunderstood my post. I was just questioning why are some doctors (especially American) willing to go higher with TRT and why normal scale on your lab test (199-1586) goes so high if normal T is indeed lower and T in the range above 1000 may cause problems. Jensen’s lab goes to 40 (respectively 1153 in your lab) and mine shows normal range of T up to 8.71 (871 your lab).
I was not targeting you or TRT… I am totally pro TRT and I am considering it myself. My only objection is that I would not like to depend on TRT but would like first to boost endogenous T production or free some T. If not I will gladly go on TRT…

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As you can see there are very very few men with natural test >1000 let alone 1480! You are absolutely not in the normal range.

This research suggests that, from age 40, the median stays pretty constant around 450 so you’re over three (3!!) times higher.

Please provide research to support your contention that 1480 is ‘normal’.

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The most interesting man in the world.

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Once more, I let the lab reports speak to what is considered normal. Your chart is meaningless and out of context with my USA lab report.

An example vitamin B-12 normal range is 271-1171 Last test I am at 974 - high normal. I supplement daily. I was told by aging specialist at TruMe Labs that rapamycin eats up B-12. Has many health benefits against covid and so keeping it up there.

Vitamin D normal range is 30. - 100 Last test I am at 60.8 lower than I like. I take a weekly supplement Vitamin D Benefits

  • It strengthens the immune system. …
  • It might prevent certain types of cancer. …
  • It boosts your mood. …
  • It can aid in weight loss. …
  • It can lower the risk of rheumatoid arthritis. …
  • It lowers the risk of type 2 diabetes. …
  • It can help lower blood pressure. …
  • It might reduce the risk of heart disease.

Are we going to debate normal on the scale and high normal not being better?


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This scatter graph shows every data point:

image

For reference 30nmol/L corresponds to 865ng/dL and, as you can see, there’s only the odd outlier above that.

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image

Oh! I am an outlier on testosterone it seems. using a scale that is not equal to the USA scale 199-1586. Where is that comparison - it doesn’t compare.

And, I am also an outlier on the Glycan test 37 years biological age and TruMe 50 years biological age - even though I am 65 years. It surprises the CEO’s of these companies test (mostly attributed to rapamycin) but there it is. I am like no other user according to them. Not a bad thing at all to be 15 years or more younger in biologyl.

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No!! Plug 1480 into the conversion calculator above and you get 51.3… that wouldn’t even appear on the chart!

I repeat my question above, can you provide DATA that 1480 is in the normal range?

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Yes, again… the lab standards for what is normal 199 - 1586. Normal.
Above this is abnormal. Shooting for high normal in all my numbers.
Minimum works - just not as well. In most cases for supplements - high normal works better. Simple.

Which is in the results posted to show what I am using as normal. My lab report records normal 199 - 1586. Can’t show it any clearer.

To be fair - I knew when I mentioned TRT Maveric78 would be all over it “Like stink-on-shit.” Hahaha. Probably a little too much of an agitator even in my old age. I blame the rapamycin and TRT in combo. Definitely feeling my oats on most days. Personally people can do what they want. If I felt there was any issue after 5-years I would be the first to warn people off. We are shooting for long and healthy life extension for those 50-60-70 years on up. definitely believe TRT, rapamycin and acarbose will do great things in that age group.

In general, people without tatts have little interest to me when they talk about tattoos being bad (yep I have one); people without kids talking about child rearing - sorry no street credit. Boring. People ont on rapamycin talking about the horrible risks and it shouldn’t be done until clinical trials are out… not listening to them. Those against TRT not on TRT - no street credit. Just sayin. So I like to yang a chain every now and then - just for shits and grins. Keeps my mind active.

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What data are the ranges you’ve been given based on? Provide links for a couple of journals…

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Hahaha – I kind of trust my lab reports ranges and lab tests… ummm… like most physicians and patients do. Should we go item by item on the blood panel and question every item as to the accuracy of the normal ranges. I don’t think so.

Okay - done with this and I did purposefully and playfully poke the sleeping dog - for fun. Gotta watch the bite tho!

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but Agetron, if you would test in my lab you would be almost double the highest normal range for testosterone (normal range is 221-871 if I get tested in my lab) if you would test in Jensen’s lab you would be 250 above normal range… so which lab do we trust?

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As a note: studies show that therapeutic doses of anabolic steroids have no effect on muscle strength and athletes’ performance.

I agree with this too. On TRT my work outs remained the same - no real gain in lifitng or weights after 2 years. Once on rapamycin that is when my strength increased to about 10-15 pounds every 3-4 months. I am at a fairly high muscle resistance weight program and maintaining it. I attribute it to rapamycin based on my N=1. Others on rapamycin (and not TRT) concur - they are lifting more - heavier.

I lifted last night - I keep thinking that I surely can’t keep this up. Body size - not that big - aging every day - I keep thinking that weakness has to kick in at some point… but so far - nope. Which is great.

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My American doctors trust our lab results for their patients and make decisions accordingly. So it is what I know, trust and use.

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You’re not on a ‘therapeutic’ dose but in any case…

Sedentary men on testosterone gained more size and strength than drug free men on a resistance training program.

125mg/wk (versus your 160mg/wk) caused a 3.4kg increase in lean body mass and just 50mg/wk caused a 22.7kg increase in leg press performance.

image

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Its a good discussion, but 1000 is in the normal range. 1,200 is unlikely to that awful.

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Agreed but @Agetron is at 1480….

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Up to him. Much that I am quite experimental I personally would aim for a max of about 1,000, but 1200 or 1500 from a logarithmic perspective is not that much higher.

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Unless your on pellets or creams - injections create peaks and valleys. If someone peaks at 1400 then different than a trough at 1400.

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