Great thread. I have nothing to add to the exogenous molecules (have used many of the OTC ones). But will relate one experience, the memory of which helps me cope: I went to see my doctor about a skin thing that had me very anxious. The doctor reassured me it was nothing to worry about – just a keratosis. I remember that as I walked down the stairs, leaving the office, I was aware of this bolus of anxiety, almost buzzing, having had to vacate its previous object of attention, was now looking for a new location, a new thing to worry about. It was like it was an independent phenomena, “not me,” operating on me. And having seen it for what it was, I have ever after been able to look at it and separate it from my “self.”
Long ago I made a cup of tea and this was the message on the Yogi tea tag: “The mind is given to you. You are not given to the mind.” This has become a kind of mantra for me. It is this experience of you yourself as separate from what your chemistry is doing to you that I find empowering. First got this from meditation long ago.
Your Yogi tea message reminded me of this quote by John Milton: “The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven…” I am also reminded of an observation by William James regarding our thoughts and feelings. It’s not that our thoughts come first and then our feelings, but our feelings come first and then our thoughts.
In other words, I have found that thoughts cannot have much more than a minimal impact on my visceral anxiety. I have had anxiety to as far back as kindergarten. What is happening in me is not susceptible to thinking differently. I first read about cognitive psychology back in the middle 1980s. But it did little more than offer momentary relief, and then only when I am thinking positive thoughts. The second I stop to do some real-life chores, the anxiety comes roaring back.
Maybe I just need to apply more discipline to meditation. But my anxiety gets in the way if I try.
@Deborah_Hall I think about this often. I’d add another idea that I find very useful.
“You” are not in charge of your brain by default. “You” are one of several operating systems that the brain uses to do its thing (survival, procreation). “You” resides in the language, planning ahead operating subsystem that works best if it can exert temporary control over certain other functions / operating systems (you can stop breathing for a while, you can stop eating for a while, you can take risks or do without something to gain a longer term benefit). But the brain always take back control when it chooses to do so. (Freewill lives or dies here).
“You” go along with these decisions because you rationalize that this other behavior is “really for the better” or the brain convinces you with emotions or other signals (hunger, fear, anxiety, pain, etc). You retain the feeling of being in charge because you function better when you feel agency. If you felt that nothing matters, that would not end well.
On the other hand, when you enter Flow, “you” essentially disappear; “you” are just living the experience. It is very enjoyable because it is freeing. All troubles and obligations and worries are lifted. A sense of time disappears as well.
In general, “you” can develop a sort of long-term control over your brain by training it to want what you want. When your brain learns that what you want works out well (food, safety, sex, etc) it will learn to want what you want (but not let you be in charge). Habits live here.
This is wisdom. It is hard to obtain and hard to retain.
This is my perspective and is not based on scientific study but is consistent with everything I’ve read about the brain, emotions, habits. I’d love to hear from anyone with a more scientific understanding of this area.
We all like to think we have free will. But the extreme version of neuroscience says that the brain “knows” what we do before we do it. In other words, no free will. And when we examine any one decision and we whittle away this and that and this and that influencing factor, it seems free will just vanishes. But we need the “illusion” of free will. As you said, we need to experience agency. Without the feeling of free will (even if it is truly nonexistent) we become existentially depressed and alienated. In other words, free will is necessary for our survival. No free will, no motivation.
Everyone enters into the experience of flow when we are engaged in an activity we truly enjoy. However, other than the enjoyment of the activity itself, it does not change the anxiety dynamic.
Read about the work of Jerome Kagan, the late Harvard psychology professor. He wrote about temperament. He tested 4-month-old infants and followed them into adulthood. Infants that exhibited a high-reactive temperament were more likely in adolescence to be introverted and susceptible to anxiety. Infants with a low-reactive temperament were more likely to be extroverted and less anxious. Kagan claimed that this is hardwired into the neurochemistry, but that over childhood it can be reinforced or ameliorated. But once it has its lock on a person, all of our free will makes little difference. That is why I seek a pharmacological solution (if there is one).
One thing I know helps with mood are opiates. They may be problematic, but they prove that pharmacology can work.
In any event, the people on the Rapamycin bulletin board had many intriguing suggestions. I intend to investigate some of them.
Your thought: “Essentially disappear” – yes. When I was meditating regularly I once --just once – had this feeling of essentially disappearing. It felt to me as though I were transparent, not separated from everything around me. I have read that this too is a brain “trick” – it is basically a loss of proprioception. But the memory of the experience has informed my ability to deal with stuff.
Meditation is hard and I think that the harder one finds it, the more one has need of it. I have not made myself return to it. I should.
Yes, it is true about chores, staying in motion. I read this somewhere: “Action absorbs anxiety.” The hardest thing is – just sitting with it. Meditating.
I would love to learn to meditate. And this may be an excuse, but I think anxiety actually makes meditation even more difficult. But you are not the only source that has recommended some kind of meditation. I also guess at the age of 70, I want a modality that is a lot faster. I read and write philosophy (philosophical anthropology). But studying the mechanics and dynamics of meditation does not initiate FLOW for me.
That is right. My wife also has anxiety. She keeps busy to mitigate anxiety. I used to take long walks to mitigate anxiety. But with a chronic pain problem, that has become impossible now. BUT those opiates. There is a way to benefit from them without being addicted or increasing the dose. I called them on and off days. I take double the daily dose (on) followed by half the daily dose (off), followed by twice the dose and half the dose, etc. That way, I get relief only for the on days. But half a loaf is better than none. However, I went off opiates two years ago.
Seroquel has the paradoxical effect of being less sedating at higher dosages. Which is why 600-800 mg can be prescribed for schizophrenics without turning them into zombies. You could probably take 300 to quell your anxiety and still function normally.
I had an overwhelming feeling of anxiety, that lasted for approximately one month and came in waves of different intensity, immediately after kidney transplant surgery during recovery period. As soon as I regained strength, anxiety vanished. I was prescribed something for it, don’t remember what exactly, but never took it because I realized that it’s connected with injured body (that affected brain). Because of that experience, I now believe that anxiety is a signal that indicates that something is misaligned.
The only thing that really helped was Kuznetsov needle applicator with thick needles that don’t perforate skin. They are arranged on a rug the size of one’s back. To get a relief you have to lie down on the rug with needles pressing agains it with your bare back. The relief of anxiety would occur in 10-15 seconds. It saved me.
I don’t know what “lies” you are referring to. Religion? Research shows that people who believe in a Higher Power are more likely to act morally and act in unison with other believers.
What I find interesting is that even the scientists who deny the reality of free will MUST believe it in their own lives.
No, I was not talking about religion, but rather about a concept that “reality is not real” and was designed like that by evolution to make us survive better. Donald Hoffman (Professor emeritus of cognitive sciences of the University of California, Irvine) argue that evolution shapes sensory systems to guide adaptive behavior, not to see the truth.
I did see a recent article about that boo/research. It made little sense to me because if our scientific, empirical conception of reality was just an illusion, we would be colliding into “reality” at every turn. If what we experience is not “real,” then we should not be able to manipulate that very “unreality.”
But that does not mean what we know is an illusion. What we know is real, but just not the complete reality, which from an evolutionary perspective is not necessary to know. Look up the concept of the umwelt: “An umwelt is the specific way in which organisms of a particular species perceive and experience the world, shaped by the capabilities of their sensory organs and perceptual systems.”
Every organism indeed perceives reality, but just the reality it needs to know. Anything outside an animal’s “umwelt” is not necessary to know.