The "LDL" Kingpin Theory - One Ring To Rule Them All? - (LMHR)

Lustgarten is doing great work and I am following him. I just hope he’s getting loads of “joie de vivre”. He always seems too serious. He needs to find, like I have, a good community to make fun of :wink: (I hate emoticons). Loads of laughs and a barrel of monkeys might get you to 120.
@ConquerAging I hope you’re listening.

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Most people seem to just want to sit back in the easy chair and pop pills.

Cause it works. Anything that reduces acm in clinical trials or extends lifespan in mice in the ITP has a good chance of actually extending the individuals healthspan and lifespan.

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Yeah ideas are cool and all, but I have a preference for things that work. Especially things that just works.

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like plastic surgery?
Life isn’t like cooking in an easy bake oven.
Or the meta-universe.

We aren’t talking about appearance afaik.

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Hmmmm…I guess what I’m getting at is the idea similar to the concept that we are born with “original sin” and the only way to deal with that is to go to confession and repent. You’re saying that we are born with a fatal flaw (cholesterol) that will eventually kill us and that salvation lies with pharmaceuticals - we should all bow down at the altar of Big Pharma and renounce all other gods. My alternative theory is that we may be doing something wrong, without knowing it, (destroying the earth maybe??) and that if we could just correct that, our soul would be purified and we would live forever curled up in the protective arms of Gaia.
I think it’s something like Shinto.

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Uhuh… okay. Got it. What’s your move?

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There’s also the option of dying.

My alternative theory is that we may be doing something wrong, without knowing it, (destroying the earth maybe??) and that if we could just correct that, our soul would be purified and we would live forever curled up in the protective arms of Gaia.

The natural route has been tested and tried for the entirety of human history. Other than the Chinese man who supposedly lived to the age of 250 by eating a bunch of herbs and a bunch of biblical figures, no one has a track record of beating 122. There’s no reported super-centenarians on a keto diet.

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I thought everyone had a friend who is 14,000 years old?

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On the cross? Or just a martyr like Morgan Spurlock?

I saw that movie!
The Man Who Fell to Earth with David Bowie was also good.

You kids today have just lost touch with nature…that’s just something to learn about in text books…it’s all video games and TikTok…no wonder you’re addicted to drugs!

It is my personal headcanon that Jesus survived his cruxification.

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He could be still alive…just a slob like one of us…just a stranger on the bus, trying to make his way home.
But is he on pharmaceuticals? Or did he live over 2,000 years without them? He’s my hero…screw Bryan Johnson!

Supposing the creator of our universe literally fathered him, I see no reason why Jesus couldn’t be immortal.

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The thread seems to have petered out into some wasteland, no?

Soft re-railing attempt - this prejudice against medications and the cult of the “natural” is nonsensical. As Matt Kaeberlein said about this very issue: we all take drugs, because we all eat. Food is just a very dirty drug.

Same with supplements vs prescription drugs. It’s the same in principle, different only because of a piece of paper. That said, I gotta put it out there: personally I’m a huge fan of meds, because unlike food and supps (and exercise, stress control, sleep etc.), they actually work, whereas all those “natural” non-med interventions didn’t do jack for me (maybe work great for you).

So I find it far more productive to discuss interventions effectiveness vs risks and tradeoffs, drugs or not in whatever form, than to have an umpteenth pointless wrestling match over “drugs bad”, “nature good”. In my book nature is always trying to kill us as soon as “not needed” (after spawning), so I’ll use the homo sapiens sapiens advantage of brain power to get one over nature. Better living through chemistry, polypharmacy here I come, genetic manipulation where do I sign up?!

Back to the salt mines: the omnipresent danger of aging via the CV system. By any means necessary.

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Yes, in fact, it’s quite the wild west with what the body takes up, it seems like the necessity to take up necessary nutrients that almost anything could be absorbed. But drugs are much more potent.

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People may be interested in my LDL results from 27/8 (3.73mmol/L - 144 mg/DL) and 1/9 (2.25 - 87).

Why are these relevant? Well it shows how much can change between two results which were actually less than a week apart. The first was 10.40 on a Tuesday and the second 11.33 on a Monday. They were different labs.

I think the first result was slightly artificially high because of a delay in running the test which caused the sample to metabolise, but i cannot prove that.

I am coming out of a period of a single high Rapamycin dose (16 + accelerator) which does seem to have shifted quite a few things. The dose was on 28/7. I am holding back from doing this again until I see ApoB coming back into kilter. The second measurement probably has a low ApoB as I think non HDL can be used as a proxy for ApoB. Lp(a) is really good anyday and in fact 2.25 LDL-C is a very low value for me. I tend to be just under 3.

However, the fact that I can get such an extreme shift in 6 days is I think worth noting.

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Yes, it is. You didn’t mention lipid lowering medication so I assume that wasn’t a factor.
William Cromwell, the lipidologist, said (in the video above) that that was what he found interesting in the Lean Mass Hyper Responders - their lipid levels changed so quickly without drugs. He hadn’t seen that before.
In the case of the LMHRs, LDL-C/ApoB rose quickly on a Keto diet. In your case LDL-C dropped quickly and it appears you attribute it to the high dose of rapamycin. Lp(a) looks like a non-factor for you. Certainly would be interesting to see anything (rapamycin or?) that drops LDL-C that fast by a mechanism outside of traditional lipid lowering - rapamycin, if anything, tends to raise lipids slightly.

@John_Hemming just reviewed your post here:
https://www.rapamycin.news/t/higher-dose-rapamycin-some-initial-results/15711/8?u=ng0rge
“In any event I want to take the same dose again, but I still would like to see ApoB move back down in line with everything else first. Hence I will probably delay Rapamycin until I see that happen.”
So, what is your normal LDL-C and what are you doing (other than rapamycin) that would affect that number?

I thought about this later. I avoided drinking for 4 days before the first reading, but I was back in my normal habits of intermittent binge drinking for the second two days. When i drink I also take panethine (now about 3g when drinking).

Hence pantethine may have driven down the value.

My normal LDL-C is about 2.8-2.9.

Its difficult to really have a “normal” LDL-c with so many interventions.

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OK, so drinking alcohol and taking pantethine both tend to lower lipids, and rapamycin tends to raise them. You’re first LDL-C test was above normal and the latest was below normal. The high rapamycin dose (28/7) about a month before the first test (27/8) could have led to higher LDL-C. Then pantethine and drinking, plus the fading effect of rapamycin might contribute to lowering LDL-C but that’s a pretty dramatic drop in 6 days. Would love to understand the mechanism there when it didn’t involve statins or the like.

I agree it is a dramatic drop. I am not sure alcohol drops LDL-C in isolation.

Still the next time I take a big Rapamycin dose I intend to have blood tests every half week initially to track what happens with ApoB, Lp(a) and insulin (as well as the rest).

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