Hello Agetron, any results yet?
1 Like
I am currently stuck with Siriboon. Perhaps if I put it in an enteric capsule it my absorb better.
Has anyone else had notable blood results to share after taking Siriboon? I see the results are definitely uneven, though I could have sworn I have seen positive results on other forums. Cannot remember where.
I may not be able to get testing in my area. Thus far cannot find anywhere that does it in my area.
1 Like
@Alex You may just want to chalk Siriboon up as a loss and order a new batch of either Zydus or Biocon from India. Or you could multiply your dose by 10X. Otherwise you really aren’t receiving a therapeutic dose and you’re just wasting your time IMHO.
2 Likes
I hear your concern but I can say that something is happening with me. I had to go off weekly schedule because any dose about 6 mg gave me cold sores and I even got ringworm for the first time ever. Also, a couple skin growths. But the consistency of dosage worries me a lot. I have to order an alternate and see what happens here.
2 Likes
What kind of test do I need to check the pills? I got the Siroboon but after taking 3 pills (6mg) with GFJ it did give me the side effects consistent with the higher dosage.
1 Like
I’m guessing that the 6mg with GFJ is a viable solution.
My two tests of 8mg Biocon averaged 15 ng/ml.
My two tests of 8mg Siroboon averaged just over 3 ng/ml.
So, straight (no GFJ) Biocon is ~5x more potent than Siroboon.
I took 4mg of Biocon with GFJ and got a 32 ng/ml.
6mg Siroboon should give about 2.25 ng/ml
6mb Siroboon w/GFJ = 2.25 x 5 (GFJ multiplier) = 11.25 ng/ml
I weigh 215lbs, so if I was going to use my remaining Siroboon, I’d take 8mg with GFG giving me about 15ng/ml.
Of course, your results may vary (and so might mine). I’ll try this in a couple of weeks and post results.
3 Likes
I reached out the Siroboon about their QC and they assured me that they are within specs. They are going to get me the paperwork to verify with an independent testing agency. Anyway when I take my course next week I’ll schedule a blood test within 1 hour of taking it. See how I go.
3 Likes
I would schedule it 2 hours as opposed an hour, or at very least hour and half.
1 Like
Even with Pfizer’s Rapamune tablets, per their own information it takes three hours in a fasted state to reach peak serum levels, and they use a technology that may lead to quicker onset of action.
Also, people have a tendency to believe their stomach is empty when it is not. Tests like these have to be done under controlled conditions if you want reliable comparisons. And if you want to compare different brands, preferably that means eliminating other factors like food and grapefruit juice. And only after an extended fast each time. Alternatively, with an exactly duplicated meal and portion size, and then waiting an extended period for testing, even the next day.
Also, if the purpose is just to compare brands, there seems to be little point in trying to catch a peak to begin with given the long half-life. A person could instead choose an interval of 12 or 24 hours each time.
3 Likes
2 days ago I took 2mg with GFC. It took a full 24 hours before I got diarrhoea. But only one time compared to last week 6mg with GFC which lasted a few days. The pain on my finger this week is more than last week but that could be the cold nights that is triggering it. I’m hoping after 12 weeks I’ll have a better idea where it is going. Back to 6mg with GFC next week or should I just take 14mg by itself?
1 Like
Why not try 4 mg + GFJ which should be a 14 mg equivalent.
1 Like
If I can tolerate more I’ll like to keep it that way for now. I’m 112kg
1 Like
Actually I noticed that I don’t get the side effects until after 24 hours. Maybe it is the coating.
1 Like
I’m going to get my blood tested in 2 days. Tomorrow morning I’ll have my GFJ 2 hours before taking 3x 2mg tablets. I’ll wait till 24 hours past before having a blood test because usually it takes that long for me to feel the side effects. I’ll refrain from taking Metformin this time. I’ll do the test weekly until I get a stable results. Hopefully no more than 4 weeks.
Update: 25/02/2024
Just got confirmation my lab results back. I’ll get them tomorrow when I see my GP.
My mouth sore has healed. Maybe it was not related to rapamycin. My psoriasis is showing signs of diminishing. Next Wednesday I’ll do another test with just 2mg and GFJ unless I need to change the dosage. Out of curiosity has anyone got a blood test 24 hours after taking rapamycin? The half life is 60 hours so the level should still be relatively higher right? Anyway I got confirmation online my results are back. Now just need to visit my GP to see them.
5 Likes
On Feb 12 (above) I commented about taking the poorly absorbed Siroboon with Grapefruit juice and how that might get the rapamycin blood level up to a reasonable level.
History:
I take 8mg Biocon Rapacan every week. Three times I’ve tested my rapamycin blood level after dosing, all of them two hours post consumption. Test 1 result was 17.1 ng/ml, Test 2 was 12.9 and test 3 was 31.9 (with GFJ).
Twice, I tried 8mg of the Siroboon 2mg pills (fewer pills seemed easier and cheaper).
First time I took it, my blood test came back at only 3.1 ng/ml (two hours post-dosing)
Second time my blood level was 3.8 after 2 hours and 3.2 after 6 hours.
As I still had a lot of Siroboon, I took 6mg with grapefruit juice on Monday (2 days ago). I had calculated that 6mg with GFJ would put my blood level around 12 ng/ml (based on my previous Biocon & GFJ test). My GFJ dosing was 3oz two hours before, 3oz twenty minutes before and 3oz when taking the Siroboon (this was the same as when I took GFJ with the Biocon and my blood level went up to 31.9).
My disappointing Siroboon results:
2 hours post dosing: 2.8 ng/ml
24 hours post dosing: <1 ng/ml (less than one)
Hard to believe the results were so bad. I don’t understand it. I do think that there actually is rapamycin in the Siroboon- as shown in a lab test posted on this site. So, I have to think that it has to do with absorption (maybe like the original 2009 mouse longevity study).
I’m throwing my seriously sucking Siroboon away!
4 Likes
Additional thoughts about my poor Siroboon results from yesterday.
My conclusion is that the Siroboon 2mg Sirolimus must have an ineffective coating and is destroyed in the stomach, similar to the original 2009 mouse longevity study where they first used rapa with no coating. The consequence of this ineffective coating is that very little rapamycin enters the blood stream. This is demonstrated by my first two blood tests where the ng/ml was just 3.1 and 3.9.
This most recent blood test resulted in a blood level of 2.8 even though I took it with GFJ. GFJ does its work in the small intestine, blocking an enzyme that metabolizes (eats?) many drugs, including rapamycin. This blocking of metabolization means that more rapamycin is available to enter the bloodstream (like the 31.9 when I took the Biocon with GFJ). Apparently, almost no rapamycin entered my small intestine, so it must have been mostly destroyed by the stomach acid before it got there.
3 Likes
I took 6mg of Siroboon after 2 hours of 8oz GFJ and my 24 hour result was 3.2 ng/L. Next week I’ll try having the blood test 3 hours after the pill to get an idea of the peak.
What is the manufacturing date of your pack? Mine is September 2023.
2 Likes
That’s very interesting and a big diff from my results. If you were at 3.2 after 24 hours, I’m guessing you must have had cMax of 8-14? I wonder if my GFJ was messed up- it had been in the freezer for four months?
Looks like I’ll have to try again with fresh GFJ…
1 Like
Yes - grapefruit juice could be a huge variance. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, depending on the specific fruit and if juice, the juice processing approach.
For blood sirolimus tests, if you’re trying to see if the drug is actually working, I would not test with grapefruit juice because it could easily be the issue by itself.
Because different people produce varied amounts of the enzymes that break down sirolimus, the effect of grapefruit juice can vary, but tests of enzyme levels may be able to predict how an individual patient will respond.
“The variation in potency of the grapefruit juice itself may be far greater than the variation in the enzymes that break down sirolimus,” Cohen said. An early version of the study used canned grapefruit juice, generously donated by a Chicago-based grocery chain. But tests of the product found it lacked the active ingredients. So the researchers shifted to a frozen concentrate product supplied by the Florida Department of Citrus.
Source:
1 Like