I’ve never heard about using BHB, but I have read about the immune checkpoint blockade and indeed, “IF” one is using an immune attack where T-cells somehow are attracted to the cancer cells, it seems that prostate cancer cells somehow “block” the T-cells and there are studies that show that high ketones circumvent that. Also a keto diet being a fasting mimetic puts many normal cells into a sort of protective mode that both protects them from chemotherapy (and radiation) as well as bypasses the PCa method of blocking. And, of course since ca cells thrive on glucose, on is depriving them.
The immune checkpoint blockade though requires either a immune based method of attack and/or chemo, and though that may be in the future, now there is no treatment.
After finding that I did, indeed, have PCa I did a 3-day fast and then for 4 weeks did a keto diet aiming for less then 10 carb grams a day, though in reality, my average was about 13. I am hoping, if nothing else, to create an environment that is hostile to metastasis. My tumor is large, 30mm x 18mm, so about 5cm3. Metastasis tends to occur once a tumor exceeds 1.5cm3.
I will be amazed (and sadly, do not expect) that my Ca has not spread to the pelvic lymph nodes. I’m guessing that the lymph nodes may be slated to be destroyed by radiation as a protective measure, even if the PET shows no active cancer there.
Oh, how I wish that there really was some knowledgeable provider to ask about Sirolimus. I asked my Provider and got a, “never heard of that.” I have been taking 6mg weekly, but stopped because of the needle biopsy as sirolimus (I believe) can hinder wound recovery.
Sweet, it’s the Lupron (hormone therapy) that really scares me, it f***s with every part of you including your head. I was hoping to avoid it but looking at the MRI’s well… best to not go there. I’d love to have the outcome that your dad has though I hope that I can, in the end, still rise to the occasion.
Thank you John_Hemming. Oh, if I had only paid more attention in my organic chemistry and biology classes (though that was 40+ years ago so now it’s very different)
Fascinating, though finding someone who actually has “splicing-modulating therapy,” hmm…
I shall read up on this and the melatonin. Oh, if I only had 1,000 hours to read everything… (I’m falling behind in work at my day job as it is…)
To me it is very obvious that prostate problems are a slightly different sort of issue to many other cancers. I agree with Thomas Seyfried’s view that most cancer is metabolic. The difference for prostate problems is that the prostate is much more metabolically sensitive in that it uses citrate to inject into seminal fluid. Prostate cancer also correlates negatively with serum citrate levels. (as serum citrate goes down it is more likely you have prostate cancer).
The only evidence I have of the affect of eating citrate on prostate beyond the theory is my own experience where my own PSA which is always below 1 goes lower when I eat more citrate.
However, I would think it would be a useful thing to try in the event of prostate issues. I think it probably helps with BPH as well as cancer. However, there are no case reports of people eating citrate and what happens to the prostate - beyond my own experience.
I have been taking largeish amounts of citrate for over 2 years. My PSA started out just above 1 and now is continually below 1. I do a blood test every week (and have done since May 2022), but don’t always have PSA measured.
There is an issue about the load on kidneys when you go to higher citrate levels. When I say higher levels I am thinking of over 10g per day.
Do any of the treatments talked about in this thread have any strong science in humans or at least in animals behind them? Afaik only 5ar inhibitors and anti-androgens do show a significant effect when it comes to preventing and treating prostate cancer in humans.
I have provided the links for citrate. That gives a very solid scientific basis, but there is not that much evidence from case studies. Obviously people already eat a limited amount of citrate.
Bayer [(BAYGn.DE), said on Wednesday its Nubeqa drug was shown to slow the progression of a certain type of prostate cancer in a late-stage trial, underpinning growth prospects for one of the German drugmaker’s key pharmaceutical products.
Bayer is developing Nubeqa, also known as darolutamide, jointly with Finland’s Orion. The drug is already approved in other prostate cancer treatment settings.
Thanks DrRon1, that’s a superb presentation on Melatonin. It pretty much answered every question I had, the predominant question that I was unsure about was, does Melotonin cause the Pineal gland to shut down, as would be the case in taking cotisone. He said: “No negative feedback inhibition.”
Melatonins main benefit AIUI is protecting mitochondrial DNA. Citrate, however, operates in a completely different dimension.
Obviously there are a wide range of molecules/nutrients that are important such as Vitamins, Minerals (eg Magnesium).
However, I would hazard a guess that some of the most significant molecules for longevity are Rapamycin, Melatonin and Citrate.
Cancer is just another aspect of metabolic failure as is aging.
One of my biomarkers that has been a bit shit is MCV. That is because I am a binge drinker. However, with me taking melatonin when I am drinking my MCV is coming down now as well (I also take Pantethine and DHM when drinking).
My MCV is still a bit high, but it is at the low end of the range of values I have had. (ie now about 92)
I think I’m going to dive into melatonin a bit more. I take a tiny dose at night most nights for sleep but I think I’ll start taking a big dose (10mg to start) if I wake to pee before 3am. I will also try a 10mg dose tomorrow midday
The idea isn’t sleep support. It’s to get the melatonin into my body for the many benefits it may have.
@John_Hemming@desertshores How did you guys ramp up the dosages? How long to get to triple digits? How would I measure effectiveness?
I read an ebook written by a guy that worked up to 500 mg/day. He said for most people you can double the dose every 2 weeks. Hope I remembered that right.
The video above (link by DrRon1) talks about high doses in the context of a question like: “What is too high a dose.” I seem to remember the speaker deferring to Russel Reiter who wrote the book Melatonin: Melatonin: Breakthrough Discoveries That Can Help You Combat Aging, Boost Your Immune System, Reduce Your Risk of Cancer and Heart Disease, Get a Better Night’s Sleep Paperback – July 1, 1996
I seem to remember that the gist of the answer was, “above a certain amount all you are doing is wasting money.” That video is fascinating.
Your POV is very much a common response and IMHO, a potentially deadly one.
“OMG, get it out” is so common and there is a large body of surgeons, and although I would not say they say: “cut it out,” malevolently, there is that $ factor and after all “if you’re a hammer,” then “bring on the nails,” you don’t want anyone considering alternatives like staples, or glue.
There is a support group that I attend, “Reluctant Brotherhood,” composed of many, in many stages of prostate cancer and the one take-away I’ve found is: Do NOT rush into a decision. And there are many there, who have lost erectile function, who are bladder and fecal incontinent.
I would never criticize any, for it is axiomatic that we always do what we this is the best for us. But I see surgery receding more and more into history.
Spring of 2022 FDC allowed PSMA-PET scans. I’ll have one tomorrow. IV injection of a radioactive gallium that has a rather insane attraction for the cell envelope of prostate cancer cells, we’re talking 1000x the uptake of normal cancer cells. They wait an hour, then do a PET scan. If there’s a 1/8" tumor in the tip of your nose, the image will show a white hotspot. It catches about 80% of all prostate cancers that have moved outside the prostate (and may miss 1:5 as they might be too small (microscopic).
So four years ago it was: You have cancer, cut the prostate out, but 'ya, know maybe we did not get it all so let’s radiate the bajeebubs out of you and then chemically castrate you for a year or three with hormone therapy.
Doc said to me: “Why are you negative on hormone therapy?” My response: Because it will turn me into a feeble-minded, feeble-bodied, no longer a guy, with big boobs, hot-flashes and mood-swings and if a 23-year old cheerleader were to jump in bed with me, I’d say, go away, I’m hot."
Ok, perhaps I’m too heavy handed there, for there are times where surgery, and/or hormone therapy (chemical castration) are necessary–or you die.
Here is the issue: Doc’s view: “I must cure him by destroying the cancer.” The doc does not care what the adverse effects are. Doc has one goal: Cure you, it matters not if, near the end, you’d much rather be dead.
Nowadays, PSMA-Pet has changed the prostate cancer world. With an 80% accuracy we can now say: “It’s not spread, so we don’t need to do hormone therapy.” This was not the case several years ago–huge change.
Also are things like (new this year) MIRdian-Linac. This is a linear accelerator that is so precise that if the patient takes a breath-out-of-sync, it detects the movement of the prostate and stops the beam and waits till the breath ends. The Miridian system has also dropped many radiation treatments from 6-8 weeks, 5x/week, to one or two weeks, with remarkably less adverse effects as urinary or fecal incontinence. Wow!
A wise CaP victim is best advised to “trust everyone–but cut the cards” ( = trust no-one). Get 2nd and if necessary 3rd opinions, ask a lot of questions. And drop your doc like a hot potato if you detect something wrong. It’s no longer a “doc world,” it has moved now closer to where the patient can be a real partner.
