Using finasteride to lower DHT may reduce risk of prostate cancer (albeit making it more difficult to detect them) and death from prostate cancer though all cause mortality was not affected either way.
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All good questions to which I don’t have any answers, sorry.
The men who took finasteride were more likely to be diagnosed with high-grade cancer compared with the men who took a placebo: 3.5 percent of all men in the finasteride group versus 3.0 percent of all men in the placebo group, a relative increase of about 17 percent.
That info is out of date. More recent studies have corrected it. Finasteride reduces the size of the prostate and allows cancer to be detected more easily.
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Paradoxically, the risk of high-grade cancer (Gleason score of 7 to 10) was higher with finasteride, a finding that led to recommendations against the use of finasteride for the prevention of prostate cancer. Subsequent trials showed that finasteride improved detection of prostate cancer and high-grade prostate cancer by improving the performance characteristics of the prostate-specific antigen (PSA) test, digital rectal examination, and the prostate biopsy. These biases could explain the paradox, but the questions of whether the greater number of high-grade prostate cancers could have led to diminished survival or to an increase in prostate cancer mortality persisted.2 In 2013, we addressed the first of these questions, finding similar survival rates in the two treatment groups of the Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial
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A bit off topic, but we’re talking male hormones/testosterone etc.
It freaks me out that I’ve heard high fertility is inversely associated with longevity in the animal kingdom.
I pride myself that my stack actually has me with near college aged libido in my mid 40s. Whether thats going high on the NAD+ with liposomal nmn/apigenin (which might not be beneficial, and the lipsomal delivery is questionable), the sirt 6 activator, the novos core mix, the vitamins, something in my stack is working to that end (actually the high dose statins - simvastatin20/ezetimibe10 haven’t hurt in this regard I feel, weirdly).
But its all healthy substances making my libido high, ? Not sure.
Or maybe libido is different from fertility
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Just by adding simvastatin/ezetimibe to your daily stack, you’ve increased your longevity already.
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I took finasteride for couple of months more then 10 years ago.
During finasteride, it was the only time in my life that I was with “bad thoughts”.
then I entered internet, and was plenty of reports of users suffering post-finasteride.
I was convinced to never take a pill of finasteride again. Luckily I did not have post finastide syndrome.
Are reports on the internet reliable? in this forum about rapamycin are also just reports. If you trust here, why do you not trust people reporting post finasteride syndrome over other forums ?
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According to the internet, billions of people should already be dead from the Pfizer covid vaccine.
Luckily I did not have post finastide syndrome.
You can’t suffer from an imaginary condition in the first place.
in this forum about rapamycin are also just reports.
I don’t take anecdotes on this forum (or from Kaeberlein) seriously in the first place. I take rapamycin because it extends lifespan in mice and because it’s approved for human use and therefore has a very well documented effect and side effect profile. If someone here claimed that rapamycin rotted their dick away and gave them cancer, would you throw away your stack and leave this forum?
Edit:
In my opinion, people who believe they suffer from PFS are either hallucinating their symptoms or blaming finasteride for every age-related condition. A good example of this would be Ryan Russo. He’s obese and has admitted to taking various drugs in the past, yet now he claims that the lion’s mane mushroom gave him PFS (lion’s mane is not even known to inhibit DHT in vitro). Why would you put any trust in those kinds of people?
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A friend of mine took finasteride some 15 years ago, went into deep depression together with loss of libido and ED. Stopped and depression took quite some time to resolve. He still insists that his semen volume decreased during that period and never recovered. Something changed in his physiology as not only his depression persisted his hair loss also stopped.
Just knowing how finasteride works I believe that depression is quite possible side effect as DHT is a strong androgen and responsible for feeling well.
While it is easy to make a connection with depression and sexual side effects of taking finasteride it is very difficult to explain long term persisting side effects. Does it make it less real? Do I believe PFS is real is not what I am questioning. I am just saying that vanity make people quite blind to side effects and long term dangers of many things, not just finasteride.
There are better options for prostate health, there are better options for full head of hair.
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Something changed in his physiology as not only his depression persisted his hair loss also stopped.
DHT levels recover within two weeks of cessation as we know from the studies.
How old was your friend when he quit finasteride?
I am just saying that vanity make people quite blind to side effects and long term dangers of many things, not just finasteride.
I would agree for newer medications, but most medications talked about in this forum have been around for decades. Even ozempic has been used in diabetics for close to 15 years now.
I strongly disagee with both statements. 5aris reduce your prostate size so you’ll never need to get it surgicially removed in order to pee. All other methods of keeping you hair (minoxidil, hair transplants) still require you to be on a 5ari.
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Early to mid twenties.
You mean 5 years?
It is probably again risk assessment. Family and personal history etc. Finasteride if we set aside PFS has around 4% risk of serious side effects disregarding the dose. If there is a potential that there would be some permanent changes I think this is too risky for myself. If I add into this equation that finasteride while shrinking your prostate does not really prevent cancer, but makes it just harder to detect in routine screening and while prostate cancer is the second second leading cause of cancer death I don’t think it is worth taking the risk of having few hairs more. But maybe you will decide differently for yourself.
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Roughly 5% of men his age suffer from depression. I don’t think you can single out finasteride for it.
You mean 5 years?
You are right, semaglutide was approved for the treatment of t2 diabetes in December 2017.
If there is a potential that there would be some permanent changes I think this is too risky for myself.
A risk which has never been seen in actual placebo-controlled, randomized trials in the decades since finasteride was first approved. Many complications such as erectile dysfunction, depression, loss of libido, … are also age related conditions so would occur either way with or without finasteride. It’s easy to blame a single drug for all your problems though when you are already not of the best state of mind when dealing with hairloss.
If I add into this equation that finasteride while shrinking your prostate does not really prevent cancer
As I posted above, it may or may not reduce the overall rate of prostate cancers but it will certainly keep your prostate from interfering with urination.
I don’t think it is worth taking the risk of having few hairs more.
From the clinical studies we have, finasteride and dutasteride have a very good safety profile and while wanting to have hair may seem vain to you, it’s an important aspect of longevity for many of us. I don’t want to look or feel 80 when I’m 80 as that kinda defeats the whole purpose.
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I’ve only started looking into non-surgical ways to shrink a prostate, but I really haven’t come across a lot of attractive alternatives to finasteride. There seem to be numerous up-and-coming treatments for prostate issues, but these have not trickled down to the standard of care, average doctor. While I don’t care about possible hair benefits, I may at some point give finasteride a try.
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There is no possibility of permanent side effects from finasteride, I do not care what anyone has to say about this. You will not change my mind. When men inject anabolic steroids, they completely shut down their HPTA, completely shut down their endogenous sex hormone production, and even after YEARS of this in some cases, when they cease administration of exogenous hormones and go through proper PCT, natural hormone production resumes, in most cases with no problems whatsoever.
This is LEAGUES beyond what finasteride does, and there are very few cases of permanent changes from it. I just don’t buy that suppressing one enzyme responsible for the production of one hormone at the end of the chain has lasting effects.
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AIUI. prostate issues relate in part to aberrant splicing. Hence I think citrate supplementation may help. All I have in terms of data at the moment is a dose dependent response with PSA. but if someone was up for trying this it would be interesting.
Thanks, I’ll look into that.
There are a lot of papers that look at this. This is only one:
Search for aberrant splicing and prostate cancer.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(19)30749-2/fulltext
Quite a few cancers relate to splicing variants. My citrate protocol is designed to directly impact on splicing variants through increasing the levels of acetyl-CoA in the nucleus.
As far as my own results are concerned my PSA was never that high, but as I have increased citrate supplementation the PSA has gone down. (last value 0.68 mcg/l)
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Do we agree that during finasteride is possible depression?
If yes, please consider that brain is more complicated then turn on, turn off switch, as building muscle.
Plenty of reports of people that use hallucinogenics, and consider the life completely different after.
Plenty of reports of people that use drugs, and triggers schizophrenia, and there is no turning back.
New connections were formed? New equilibrium achieved?
Why couldn’t finasteride trigger depression, and then be a hard path to recover?
I consider brain complex, makes sense the post finasteride sindrome.
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I consider it possible, though exceedingly unlikely, and this is supported by the research as well.
It’s interesting to me that you chose psychedelics as an example, as I believe this demonstrates the opposite of the conclusion you wish to draw. I’ve used psychedelics plenty myself, and you’re right, the brain can rewire itself to a pretty remarkable extent. Therefore I see no reason why lowered DHT levels would not be easy for the brain to adapt to.
And even if we disagree there, post finasteride syndrome makes no sense because the 5ar inhibition is temporary. Makes no sense why the side effects would be permanent. If finasteride does trigger something permanent based on a temporary dip in hormone levels, it’s far more likely there was another underlying problem anyway.
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