It does significantly reduce rates of prostate cancer and prostate cancer mortality but there is only a trend towards a lower acm. Sadly we don’t have any comparative data for 17a-estradiols effect on human longevity.
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Androgenetic alopecia (AGA) is the most frequent form of alopecia in men and women. It is characterized by progressive hair loss, usually in a pattern distribution. The onset may be at any age following puberty and the frequency increases with age. By the age of 70 or beyond, 80% of Caucasian men and up to 40% of women have signs of AGA. Today, in our societies, hair is an important feature of image; strong and dense hair is associated with youth, beauty, healthiness and success.
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The cause and effect here looks all backwwards at best.
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Who here has noticed better skin quality since starting fin?
Alongside hair loss prevention younger and smoother skin is always a plus, as dht ages skin, even a very low dose lowers skin serum dht by a lot as shown by this study previously reported earlier:
Background: Data suggest that androgenetic alopecia is a process dependent on dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and type 2 5alpha-reductase. Finasteride is a type 2 5alpha-reductase inhibitor that has been shown to slow further hair loss and improve hair growth in men with androgenetic alopecia.
Objective: We attempted to determine the effect of finasteride on scalp skin and serum androgens.
Methods: Men with androgenetic alopecia (N = 249) underwent scalp biopsies before and after receiving 0.01, 0.05, 0.2, 1, or 5 mg daily of finasteride or placebo for 42 days.
Results: Scalp skin DHT levels declined significantly by 13.0% with placebo and by 14.9%, 61.6%, 56. 5%, 64.1%, and 69.4% with 0.01, 0.05, 0.2, 1, and 5 mg doses of finasteride, respectively. Serum DHT levels declined significantly (P <.001) by 49.5%, 68.6%, 71.4%, and 72.2% in the 0.05, 0.2, 1, and 5 mg finasteride treatment groups, respectively.
Conclusion: In this study, doses of finasteride as low as 0.2 mg per day maximally decreased both scalp skin and serum DHT levels. These data support the rationale used to conduct clinical trials in men with male pattern hair loss at doses of finasteride between 0.2 and 5 mg.
So even 0.5mg 3x weekly may do the job, which is currently what I started. The reason i dose 3x weekly is skin dht stays reduced for quite a while even though finasterides half life is only a few hours
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Finasteride is only a very weak 5ar type 1 inhibitor so you shouldn’t expect it to improve your skin beyond what the 10-15% extra estradiol will do.
Anecdotally I can confirm that as my skin still gets oily quickly.
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Can you post evidence of that?
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You mean for finasteride being a selective 5ar type 2 inhibitor in humans? Or brain neurosteroid production primarily relying on the 5ar type 1 enzyme? Or finasteride having mixed study results regarding blood sugar levels and studies indicating it may lower cholesterol? Or studies showing lower risk of developing prostate cancer and a trend towards lower acm? I’ve posted plenty of sources for all of that in this thread so far if you follow the chain of discussion and search for me.
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I’m guessing you’re using it for hair loss? I’m on TRT. Before I started it I did research on all possible side effects and methods of alleviating them. All of them were easy to control if they come up except hair loss. Every single hair loss intervention has risks that seem almost not worth it.
Do you do anything else for hair? Have you had side effects?
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Topical fin/dut won’t have the same systemic effect. I have not tried reading up on this, but it seems obvious.
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From what I’ve read topical ends up going systemic on a long enough time line.
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I am sure it goes systemic, but at a much lower level.
I have done a chatGPT query using O3.
This is a linked paper:
Results
Of 458 randomized patients, 323 completed the study and 446 were evaluated for safety. Change from baseline in target area hair count (TAHC) at week 24 (primary efficacy endpoint) was significantly greater with topical finasteride than placebo (adjusted mean change 20.2 vs. 6.7 hairs; P < 0.001), and numerically similar between topical and oral finasteride. Statistically significant differences favouring topical finasteride over placebo were observed for change from baseline in TAHC at week 12 and investigator‐assessed change from baseline in patient hair growth/loss at week 24. Incidence and type of adverse events, and cause of discontinuation, did not differ meaningfully between topical finasteride and placebo. No serious adverse events were treatment related. As maximum plasma finasteride concentrations were >100 times lower, and reduction from baseline in mean serum DHT concentration was lower (34.5 vs. 55.6%), with topical vs. oral finasteride, there is less likelihood of systemic adverse reactions of a sexual nature related to a decrease in DHT with topical finasteride.
It is quite interesting how much of a systemic effect there is from a very small quantity of finasteride, but the systemic load is substantially lower (this says over 100 times the size of systemic).
Take-home message - from chatGPT
-
There is no simple milligram-for-milligram equivalence.
Topical finasteride is intentionally “underdosed” relative to oral because the scalp route concentrates drug where it is needed and spares the rest of the body. - For most patients, ~0.1 mg/day topical behaves like 1 mg/day oral in the hair follicle but only like 0.01-0.05 mg systemic, explaining the markedly lower rate of sexual and mood-related adverse effects reported in trials. PubMed Central
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Curious if anyone here knows a good source of topical finasteride? Or do you just crush a pill into powder and mix it into some minoxidil liquid you apply topically?
There is Hims in the UK. I don’t know about Australia. Fin is a prescription med.
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I don’t do anything else for my hair at the moment. If you’re using TRT, go for dutasteride rather than finasteride as finasteride may be too weak as a 5ar inhibitor for high doses of testosterone.
I don’t have any side effects on finasteride but I did have some on dutasteride.
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I’m not interested in fully crushing DHT. I know you disagree, but I have noticed benefits from higher DHT in terms of my mentality and confidence. I imagine that is more the neurosteroid side of things, so if finasteride doesn’t impact that I’d be willing to try that.
I do notice some more hair coming out in the shower when washing my hair compared to before starting so I should get ahead of that before it becomes a problem.
Do you have any idea if topical has systemic effects on par with oral? I’d rather just get localized effects. Was thinking crushing up finasteride pills and dissolving into minoxidil liquid, or getting a pre-made solution.
I think you should take as much of a 5ar inhibitor as you feel comfortable with and what helps you keep your hair (and prostate health).
I do notice some more hair coming out in the shower when washing my hair compared to before starting so I should get ahead of that before it becomes a problem.
Shedding can happen for various reasons. It’s more of a problem if it doesn’t grow back.
Do you have any idea if topical has systemic effects on par with oral?
That heavily depends on the concentration. You will have to play around with that and find a concentration that helps you maintain your hair while also making you not feel any side effects. Find some hairs along your hairline/crown and track them over time to monitor for miniaturization.
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