I think that can be safely considered to be a marketing hyperbole from the vendor.
50mW/cm2 of optical power on a 20x12" panel would be around 190W on electric power an that would get extremely hot.
If you look at the teardown of a 45W (advertised) panel I posted some time ago in that thread the optical output was around 10mW/cm2 while the vendor says it’s 100mW/cm2.
You can just look at the power rating of the AC adapter to get an idea of the maximum possible power.
I have two panels from platinumled together they measure 6 feet by 12 inches.
630, 660 and NIR wavelengths 810 830 and 850. The newer ones have an additional blue light. On mine you can either use red light, near infrared or both.
I stand about 8-10 inches away and slowly turn for twenty minutes. Usually 4-5 times a week
I think it’s unwise to accuse a manufacturer of lying unless one had concrete evidence, such as data from a light meter that measures a different light intensity from the device than what the manufacturer states.
Also, this product is not 12"x20"; it’s 8"x13.8" with treatment area of ~6"x12". See more information below:
I bought the bulb from the Amazon link in the original thread. I finally tried it. Am I supposed to feel a burning sensation akin to a sunburn? I hept the light about 6-12 inches away from my scalp for 10 minutes. It says it is 35 W.
As always with those amazon vendors it’s hard to find the correct information. For instance from their product information:
Sort of confusing. Maybe they have a higher starting inrush current that makes the power goes to 36W when turned on before the 20W steady state.
In the questions there is that too:
Let’s assume the electrical power is 20W that would be around 8W of optical power and you can divide that by the illuminated area in cm2 to get the illuminance in W/cm2. For instance if the light is spread over a 20cm diameter circle that would be 25.5mW/cm2
This guy (Dr. Mike Belkowski, who is not a medical doctor but is a doctorate of physical therapy and goes by dr anyway [which I find distasteful], and is the CEO of biolight which sells its own panels) is a bit of a snake oil salesman and doesn’t seem particularly knowledable science-wise (mispronounces words, doesn’t mention bias, etc.), but here he reads papers on red light therapy and there are occasionally good stuff and some decent guests (some not-so-much). Not much of an argument to read further…
However, in this episode he talks about doesage from a “photobiomodulation” conference research paper (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9468822/) of a literature study in treating cancer-treatment-driven side effects, the dose of 1 J/cm2 (which is the center of the order of magnitude of 0.1 to 12 J per cm2 in the paper depending on treatment) should take roughly 40 seconds for a panel with 25mW/cm2 (of irradiance). This would mean for our panels with roughly 5mW/cm2 (thank you, @cl-user ) should take 200 seconds (3.5-ish minutes) for a 1J/cm2 treatment; a 3.4mW/cm2 should take 4.5 minutes for the same 1 J/cm2 dose. A human clinical safety study is referenced in the paper at 10 J/cm2 with no ill effects.
Dosages/irradiance of panels start at 17:30-ish.
Based on the buzz and Bryan Johnson’s Blueprint I figured I would give RLT a try. I looked at a bunch of different devices. I don’t want to break the bank so I found what I thought was a good value, low EMF, strong irradiance.
I am going to take some before pics and will post if they show anything interesting. Along with sleep scores and how I ‘feel’ pain, inflammation, energy etc.
2 Likes
Those prices look good. I paid more for my Mito Red Light “Mito Pro”. I’ve had great pain relief from it. Also some skin health improvements. I’m a fan.
5 Likes
FWIW
These are what I purchased one of these;
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B09TDKHXD6
And two additional bulbs
And two of these;;
Thanks. FYI, when I’m using my Mito Pro lamp, I put the lamp right on my skin, or just 1 inch away, to get max impact. It will blister my skin if I’m not careful. I have to shift it a little bit every minute (less often on some parts of my body)
I used to be in the laser business and got zapped once in a while. I still have minor scars on my retina.
I bought two 12x12 LED light panels from Amazon (I think they were $35 each) which each have 112 or 113 LEDs each interspersed of 660nm and 850nm at 45W total panel each. I tried them this morning for the first time, lying directly on my skin for 3 min each section (back of upper legs lower back, then across upper back shoulders, then front of upper legs below knees abdomen, then across chest/shoulders, then 45 degree triangle over face neck, then 45 degree on top of head like a dunce cap). I definitely felt “slight tingling” and warmth as if I was sitting in front of a wood fire. I can’t say I felt “better” but I had a massive gym workout yesterday (with probably too many deadlifts) and was dragging, and now I’m not as much (maybe coffee? It’s my recovery day anyway). I’ve don’t feel “angry” as someone mentioned, nor “elated” or “energized”. I plan to try it for a few months, and I’ll report any gains/side effects. Any suggestions are welcome.
2 Likes
I think that is a good mix of Red and Near Infra Red around the right wavelengths. I am using a mixed R & NIR panel.
What I notice when I expose my retina to them (not looking at them directly with eyes open, but potentially looking at them directly with my eyes closed or otherwise exposing the retina - there is some sub surface penetration anyway) is some small spots that flash. Dark spots when exposing the retina directly (eyes closed) and white spots when they switch off.
I assume this is the copper atom in Cytochrome C Oxidase releasing a photon. However, there is qutie a bit in the literature that indicates they have some effect on improving mitochondrial quality.
There is always a difficulty when you are using a number of systems at the same time. I am also using PEMF (which definitely has an effect) and I think the combination of the two is a key factor in improving hair follicle cells (the outcome from these is more visible than other cells). I continue doing my weekly blood tests which are either static or generally going in the right direction. Hence it all seems OK. I have a trudiagnostic test from April which does seem to have some meaning although I am not a massive fan of epigenetic age tests themselves - DunedinPACE is another issue.
Hence I do think R/NIR panels are worth trying out. Over time we may get more certainty as to what works and what does not, but I think they fit into the hormesis type of thing and its easier than a sauna.
1 Like
Tanks for your always useful review. Mybe can you indicate the RED and Near Infra Red device ?
I have just bought a second lamp to link to this (the lamps can be linked together and controlled from one of them).
He said in his home tour video that he was disappointed in it. I suspect that if it does anything, the effect is weak.
@arugula I can tell you that my experience is that Red / IR light for joint pain relief is very strong. Other benefits are promised, and I’ve not seen them. But for elbow, shoulder, wrist pain…the red light or IR (I think it’s the IR) is amazing. How the lamp is used matters: distance from bulb, time under lamp, etc.
The theory of this is improved mitochondrial efficiency. My difficulty is separating out any effects of RIR from other things that are intended to get improved mitochondrial efficiency. As it stands I think it is worth the time I take using the device.
1 Like
I said I would update the forum on my use of two cheap 45W 660/850nm LED panels (112 or 113 LEDs each color for 225LEDs on each panel).
I’ve been using it:
o. For two months.
o. occasionally (perhaps 2-3 days per week)
o. only in the morning just after waking (I listened to a few cheesy red light therapy podcasts which claimed some research suggesting it was only effective in the morning, so why not)
o. On each part of my body for three times minutes (so one panel on each should and upper back for three minutes, then move down to lower/mid back/upper glutes region for three, etc. ) I end with three minute each side of face/neck triangles over, and three minutes on top/front of head (hopefully for hair?) Again, I head a podcast from an ex-dentist from Bucalo who claimed his research showed the peak impact is three minutes after which it begins to be detrimental.
My thoughts/reactions aren’t terribly scientific but here they are::
o. There seems to be something happening in the three minutes. The LED panels themselves get warm, but it doesn’t feel like a heating pad’s effect. I feel (for lack of a better description) a “tingling” after using it for a few minutes — not like my skin has fallen asleep but “energized”? Maybe similar to is I sat infront of a very hot wood fire. Not sure how to describe it. If it is placebo, feel free to bottle it and sell it to me.
o. “Possibly” alleviated some muscle soreness if done the morning after a heavy lifting day…possibly? Again, please bottle any placebo effect and we’ll it back to me.
o. No change in weight lifted or distance possible: too soon? Unlikely to change? — I’ve plateaued recently anyway so likely has nothing to do with red light.
o. Maybe some enhanced hair growth at the part which may have been thinning at the temples…maybe? I’ll know more when I cut my hair Wednesday, but seems thicker? I wouldn’t rush out and buy one on the small effect I may be seeing, but maybe it is real and maybe accelerates?
o. No noticeable improvement in skin quality or wrinkle depth, but I did a poor job of scientifically measuring this, and was accidentally sunburned at the beginning of this treatment. So comparisons are likely nil.
o. Possible than my eyesight is a bit worse for reading…possibly? — it’s been going for five years and I’ve fought it back by not using reading glasses, but I sense they reading sight is a bit worse now. It could have zero to do with the red light, but still worth mentioning. It is difficult to maneuver the panels and re-plug them back in, and re-set the timer without accidentally getting a blast of red light in your eyes, regardless if the plastic light blockers are worm all other times.
o. They are a bit of a pain (at least the ones I bought cheaply) — the cords would constantly fall out and don’t stay tightly in. I’ll likely superglue them in.
o. It’s a big time sink: more than 30 min in the morning. If you were already laying there listening to podcasts, great, but otherwise is a time commitment.
In general: I’d not recommend it thus because no effects seem so clear that it makes sense. That being said, I’m planning to continue to see it through.
1 Like
@Ericross2 Good feedback. If you only have 30 minutes/day, I’d focus on one thing 2x each day. That way you don’t dilute the effect too far. If 10-15 minutes on a body part x2 each day for a week doesn’t do anything good, then it won’t (my opinion). I do mine while I eat my breakfast and catchup on email, etc., and then another session at dinner. I’ve had tremendous help with joint pain (totally gone …shoulder pain comes back (but less than original) after I do more weight training…which is 3x/wk). It is a bit of a bother, but so were the painful joints which limited my life. Shoulders from bike crashes, carpel tunnel, golfers elbow…Good luck.
1 Like