This is a very difficult problem. I’m afraid there are no easy solutions. Sure, you could keep getting second, third, nth opinion, but that’s like doctor shopping - how do you know you are getting a good opinion rather than just one you like. I myself have relied on the grinding work of reading reviews - yes, it’s subjective and also not 100% reliable. But I then get the best dentist I see from reviews and try them out - here gut feeling and careful listening is what’s needed. Ask questions and listen to hear of the answers make sense. I have walked out of “highly rated” dentists who I thought were merely money spinners. If you finally get a good one, you ask them for their referral for an implant (if needed). I wouldn’t go to a dentist who does everything, rather for implants, extractions and the like you need to go for a specialist. The dentist will guide you to who does what best - and make sure they are experienced, so an implant periodontist must have done a ton, and make sure it is he who does the work, not one of his flunkies. It’s a jungle out there, unfortunately.
CronosTempi is spot on, as always. I do think it’s protective to say you would go to a specialist for the work because, if it’s a money grab, it might change their advice… not always of course.
I’ve had two great dentists I trust… the others have been highly skilled and popular but complete salesmen.
You don’t have to answer, but why do you feel you might need an implant. If you have a cavity, they can show you on xray.
I’ll share how my current dentist thinks incase it’s at all helpful to you. And of course each mouth is different and sometimes an implant is definitely needed.
My dentist in my old city kept trying to get me to do things, but this was after his hygienist looked at my record and said ‘oh, I see we’ve never done any work on you’… he then came into the room with a hard sell. He kept saying my tooth was going to crack and I needed it worked on asap, but due to the hygienist’s comment, I said not today. He was visibly upset.
I moved and found my current dentist. I said my last one said I needed to do xyz… he said is it bothering you? Ding ding ding, this is the key question for him! I said no, not at all. He said why don’t you call me if it ever does… eureka.
A decade later, he said it’s getting worse and this tooth might not last forever. He said you can take care of it now, or just wait, and if it should crack, call me and I’ll get you right in… I said I’ll take option #2. That was probably 2 years ago.
Then last month he showed me that one of my childhood fillings cracked and I developed a small cavity. He said we have to put a crown on that one. The tooth next to has a cracked filling that we’ve been watching so you might want to take care of it while that area is numb anyway, and the 3rd tooth, which will also be numb, has an old silver filling that we could switch out if you just want it to look better. 3 options, 1 is a must, 2 is probably a good idea because you’ll have to fix it at some point, and the 3rd is just because we are there. He said I’d do all 3, but you should seriously consider doing at least 2, but you only have to do 1 and it’s up to you. As always, you can just call me when that other filling cracks and I’ll get you right in. (I voted for 1)
I also have pocketing on the brain and asked him if we should be discussing it… he said everything is fine and if I send you to a periodontist, they will tell you everything they see needs to be worked on.
PS, if you get on a plane, mask up and don’t touch your eyes etc. (I’m sure you already know this)
Dr Ellie’s recommendations have worked well for me and everyone I was able to convince to try it. I have stopped flossing; Dr Ellie’s concern was flossing causing access to blood supply for bacteria. If you don’t bleed from flossing then floss away. I stopped because why bother. My dentist says I have great teeth.
Dr Ellie’s other advice was to stop sipping liquids all day which interferes with saliva’s healing function. I struggle with this one but I’m still trying to drink less often (without lowering the total volume). My caffeine-less efforts dovetail here.
FYI: my nitrite test strips are perfect every time I test. I may have lower NO production for a while after oral care but it apparently returns to full force after a few hours.
The xylitol stuff has fallen by the wayside but may be important.
Right?? It’s hard to imagine!
Also:
To make the routine a little more efficient
this is my setup….
My sister chose these because they are on her counter
Back to the foundational principles. Don’t use mouthwash if you don’t have periodontal disease. Brush and floss (or use waterpik) 3x/d to maintain good oral health. If you’re prone to cavities use Prevident or Neutracare as your toothpaste or at least once a day. If you’re on bisphosphonates for osteo, see your dentist regularly. Do not go to Mexico for dental work, especially implants. Find a very good dentist (sorry I don’t have a time machine to send you back to 1970-1985). HMOs changed how too many dentists practice. Still some very good ones out there though).
Your current criteria are what I’ve adopted for myself. If and when they bother me, I’ll act. The dentist did say that two of the teeth are infected and could erupt without warning, but right now they are dormant. Considering the prices involved, I’ll wait and take my chances.
I had a bridge done in Mexico and it lasted 12 years. I saved 6k and stayed a nice week in San Diego.
@Tim if you have infections that don’t need to be addressed right away, it would definitely worth your while to deep dive with Dr Ellie… a lot of infections can be resolved by using her program.
I’d seriously just buy the stuff and start asap and learn later… please note to get the EXACT products in my post… all crest etc are not equal to her… they all have to work with each other… the correct ph blah blah bla
I’ll try that, Beth. Many thanks. The other dentist said I didn’t have an impeding eruption, so if I do have a latent problem, it may still be treatable.
Is this a great site or what?
it’s literally the BESTEST!!!
You’re lucky. Most others are not and end up paying more than they would have saved by far. It often takes years before poor dentistry is either discovered or takes its toll and must be replaced. Which is why poorly skilled dentist remain in practice so long.
Well, it’s like Chinese peptides. If you do your homework, the odds are high that you’ll have a good experience.
Ok, sure, I’ll try it! I seem to be quite cavity-prone, so I should be a good test subject.
So to be clear, based on the PDF and comments from you and @medaura , the full routine is:
- Xylitol gum
- Closys rinse
- Brush with the specific Crest toothpaste
- Listerine rinse
- ACT anticavity rinse
?
I understand no flossing, but I still feel kinda puzzled how the special toothbrush is meant to get between teeth and into all the places an interdental brushes could reach! I feel like things get stuck between my teeth quite easily, and I do use the water irrigator or little interdental brushes to get them out.
RM, you’ll be the perfect test case then!!!
I had Perplexity write it all out for you (pasted below)
While she says you won’t need to floss, if you have food stuck in your teeth, by all means have at it. She says if you do, at least do it after you brush so you are pushing toothpaste up there. I think the brushes help, but it’s also about all the swishing going on in 3 steps that helps replace flossing.
I’d say use the flosser and skip the irrigator for now.
I’ll list more tidbits…
Do make sure you are not only looking for the correct version of crest, but all the products
Swish with closys for 60 seconds.
Don’t do a final mouth rinse with water… in fact, there is no time you rinse with water.
You don’t have to use her recommended toothbrush, but it’s cheap and I think you’ll love it, so just get it 
If you find the listerine burns, she says don’t force it and just spit it out when you have to… and over time you’lll find you can tolerate longer… I noticed that.
I happen to prefer xyloburst brand cinnamon mints (didn’t like their lemon and I don’t care for her cinnamon, fwiw). And these would be after eating to help keep plaque from forming.
Mouth rest…don’t sip and eat all day… (I can’t do this part and probably need therapy)
Oh, she said if you have plaque on your teeth, it might start to turn dark before it gets better… she said if you have a stain you want to tackle, you could brush that area with a little xylitol. I didn’t have that issue but thought oh in that case I’ll brush with xylitol and maybe it will naturally whiten my teeth… based on how rough my teeth felt for a few days, I questioned the wisdom of doing that again. I feared I was causing damage… but I dunno.
Dr. Ellie Phillips’ protocol (“Complete Mouth Care System”) is a 5‑minute, twice‑daily sequence using specific products plus daily xylitol to shift biofilm, neutralize acids, and promote remineralization. Correct products, order, and timing are considered critical for the synergy she describes.[drellie]
Core goals and principles
- Neutralize mouth acidity and protect enamel before any brushing.[drellie]
- Modulate rather than sterilize the oral biofilm, mainly with frequent xylitol.[drellie]
- Remineralize with sodium fluoride while maximizing contact time.[gentleartofdentistry]
- Maintain an alkaline, saliva-rich environment between routines using xylitol mints/gum.[drellie]
Daily xylitol use (throughout the day)
This is considered “step 0” and runs in the background all day.[drellie]
- Product: Xylitol mints or gum (she promotes Zellie’s, but emphasizes any pure xylitol source).[drellie]
- Dose: Aim for about 6–10 g xylitol per day, typically ~2 small mints after every meal, snack, or drink, totaling ~12 mints/day.[gentleartofdentistry]
- Pattern: Small, frequent exposures; chew or dissolve after each eating/drinking episode, then avoid food/drink for ≥30 minutes to let pH rise and biofilm composition shift.[gentleartofdentistry]
- Claimed effects:
- Raises salivary pH and reduces time spent in demineralizing acidity.[drellie]
- Loosens plaque and makes it easier for rinses to penetrate.[drellie]
- Selectively reduces cariogenic organisms (e.g., S. mutans) while supporting a more favorable microbiome, rather than killing everything like strong antiseptics.[drellie]
Twice‑daily 5‑minute sequence
Used morning (after breakfast) and night (last thing before bed). At night, no food or drink afterward.[gentleartofdentistry]
Step 1 – Pre‑rinse with CloSYS
- Product: CloSYS Ultra Sensitive Alcohol‑Free Rinse (stabilized chlorine dioxide, pH‑neutral).[drellie]
- How:
- Use as a “pre‑rinse” before brushing; swish or simply let it bathe all tooth and gum surfaces for about 60 seconds.[gentleartofdentistry]
- Do not rinse with water afterward.[drellie]
- Rationale:
- Neutralizes acidic saliva to protect enamel before mechanical brushing.[drellie]
- Chlorine dioxide reacts with saliva to generate oxygen and disrupt anaerobic and cariogenic bacteria in plaque and periodontal pockets.[gentleartofdentistry]
Step 2 – Brush with Crest Cavity Protection
- Product: Crest Cavity Protection Regular Paste (sodium fluoride, not whitening or tartar‑control variants).[drellie]
- Brush: She favors a brush firm enough to massage gums effectively, with separate AM and PM brushes that dry 24 hours between uses.[drellie]
- How:
- Wet brush, apply a pea‑sized amount, then brush teeth and along gumlines, focusing on gentle but thorough gum massage.[drellie]
- Purpose is less “scrubbing clean” and more stimulating gingival blood flow and delivering fluoride.[gentleartofdentistry]
- Rationale:
- Sodium fluoride in Crest supports remineralization once the environment is neutral from the CloSYS step.[gentleartofdentistry]
- Gum massage improves circulation and aids healing of gingivitis and shallow periodontal issues.[drellie]
Step 3 – Floss with fluoride left on
- Timing: Directly after brushing, without rinsing off toothpaste.[drellie]
- How:
- Floss while Crest paste is still on teeth, working the fluoride lather between contacts to expose interproximal surfaces.[gentleartofdentistry]
- Rationale:
- Increases contact of sodium fluoride with interproximal enamel and root surfaces.[gentleartofdentistry]
- Treats flossing as a way to deliver agents, not just mechanically remove debris.
Step 4 – LISTERINE as “liquid floss”
- Product: LISTERINE ORIGINAL or COOL MINT (classic essential‑oil formula, not zero‑alcohol or whitening formulations).[drellie]
- How:
- Use after brushing/flossing; swish vigorously for ~30 seconds, forcing it between teeth like “liquid floss”.[gentleartofdentistry]
- Rationale:
- Essential oils penetrate biofilm and target immature S. mutans and other pathogens without stripping the entire biofilm.[gentleartofdentistry]
- Adds antimicrobial action precisely when plaque is most disrupted by brushing and floss.
Step 5 – Final fluoride rinse (ACT or similar)
- Product: Alcohol‑free fluoride rinse, often specified as ACT Anticavity (NaF).[drellie]
- How:
- Rinse for about 60 seconds, then spit; do not rinse with water afterward.[drellie]
- At night, do not eat or drink afterward so fluoride can act undisturbed.[gentleartofdentistry]
- Rationale:
Intended outcomes and usage notes
- With consistent use (plus xylitol for 3–6+ months), she claims:
- Reduced plaque accumulation, fewer cavities, and arrested/early reversal of small lesions.[drellie]
- Healing or improvement of gingivitis and shallow periodontal pockets.[drellie]
- Less sensitivity and better comfort in dry mouth by reducing acid exposure and supporting a healthier microbiome.[drellie]
- Frequency: Twice daily; more is not needed if sequence and xylitol use are followed.[drellie]
- Population: Designed for adults and older children with permanent teeth; children should be supervised until they can rinse and spit reliably.[drellie]
If you want, a follow‑up can walk through how this protocol interacts with specific concerns like root caries, implants, or vegan/dry‑mouth contexts and where you may or may not want to diverge from her exact product list.
Listerine has a new alcohol-free version that I like a lot.
And I use Xylomelts to counteract dry mouth at night. These long-lasting gems adhere to the upper gums and leave a xylitol coating that lasts even longer.
If you have a piece of food actually stuck somewhere between teeth, by all mean floss to get it out. But other than that, don’t just do it routinely. You’ll see those brushes are excellent for getting stuff unstuck. Now there’s details: ~6g of xylitol per day, after meals. Closys but not ANY Closys, it’s not about the brand but the specific product. They make many, so choose the right one. Honestly watch her full video so you know what you’re doing soup to nuts. Brush the gums too, at the root of teeth. NOT just any Listerine either – original or cool mint. And very important: practice mouth resting whenever you can, no snacking and sipping between meals unless you really have to, try to end with a tooth protective food (cheese, nuts, etc.) and pack that xylitol.
This thread has been really interesting!
I think the answer in the end cannot be OSFA. I have very bad damage to my enamel (long story) and need to use a heavy duty Japanese calcium hydroxyapatite product for my enamel. Using any fluoride products or even having flouridated water is contraindicated for calcium hydroxyapatite absorption in the teeth. So the program being mentioned here is not the right one for me–or not yet. At the same time, it is intriguing and may offer some fresh leads. The pre-rinse, for instance, might be valuable for me. Ty
Love this idea!