Human rationality and the many forms of threats to it is a lifelong study. Sometimes you look up and wonder how we got as far as we have. At other times, you are in awe.
Even those well trained in scientific methods appropriate to their discipline are subject to several forms of errors in reasoning.
I think about it every day!
Also incredible is the number of people who are heavily influenced by social media âinfluencers.â
That was an out of character, overly hostile response. Is hope everything is ok.
I think my original post was quite clumsily worded. But basically my response is that we are all products of our genetics, upbringing and environment. If you were born and raised in Saudi Arabia, youâd most likely be Muslim and believe that eating pork is a sin, and no amount of data will convince you otherwise. Living where we live, we have those cultural values and beliefs, and those shape your judgment. Not everybody has the same judgment because itâs so shaped by culture and what you believe is valuable or not, right or wrong etc. I am not arrogant enough to believe that I am exempt from that.
I also donât believe people actually have as much choice as you think. In principle, of course we have supermarkets full of diverse stuff. However, much of it is financially unaffordable to many, âculturally unalignedâ for many more. I donât have the right words for that, but basically many of the supermarket aisles arenât even on the radar for many people. In the way you donât even see the pet food aisle if you donât have a dog, many people wonât see the vegetable section. Many younger people donât know how to cook. Parents are busy. Work is demanding. Skills were not passed on. People are addicted to devices, and most people are living in their own bubbles. The supplements and medications you take were almost certainly first introduced to you by some sort of key opinion leader, influencer etc. You might have done your own research after, but your interest in this whole longevity space was probably guided from somewhere. Hope that makes better sense.
To be clear, I donât believe that there is any sort of grand conspiracy. But I do believe that thereâs a lot of short-term greed, and profits come first. If TikTok or whatever can get you to hand over more data, or they can increase your time viewing the page, itâs a win, and they work on that goal to your detriment. Weâve seen it with food and food processing, with all sorts of industries.
And I am humble enough to acknowledge that I am not somehow immune from their effects.
Yes, absolutely. But I would point out that it happens even earlier. As mentioned above, your upbringing (country, parents, schooling etc) greatly influences your propensity for certain viewpoints. Like, I would never consider cutting off part of my penis, or my sons penis, but like millions of people routinely do that to their children every year for a variety of reasons which I think are totally insane. I would never consider smoking, but plenty of people decide to do that. And thereâs almost certainly things I do that are completely alien or insane to millions of other people. Participating on an online forum about longevity and taking an organ transplant drug is probably one of them!
No hostility at all, just vigorous reaction - sometimes itâs hard for tone to come across online 
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That said, I utterly disagree with your claims. No, I donât believe I would be a muslim who is observant had I been born in SA. I was born in a Christian dominated country in a Catholic family. At a pretty early age I was sent to a Catholic boarding school. I have distinct memories of utter disbelief from my earliest age. Looking around at mass my thoughts were âhow weird, adults believing complete and evident nonsense, gibbering and genuflectingâ. I was a natural born atheist. Other than contempt, all I ever experienced as a kid was intense hostility to all religion. So nope, not a chance in hell (see what I did there, lol) Iâd be Muslim (or animist) just because I was born in a particular place. As soon as you pulled out some moronic text and tried to tell me about a talking bush, lizard or angel, Iâd wonder how such nonsense was possible. At the boarding school there were a lot of kids who believed, and would warn me about not respecting god - my favorite game was to loudly demand that Jesus strike me dead, insulting and challenging, the horrified looks of fear on their faces would be my reward. I didnât believe a single thing that the nuns would spout.
Same about pork or dietary restrictions. I had nothing but contempt for Lent and meat restrictions. I grew up with meat and potateos - hated potatoes from the get go. World cuisine interested me, and not what I grew up with. So that doesnât apply either.
And I donât think Iâm a special snowflake. At the uni I studied philosophy. Some of the most dedicated atheists most filled with hatred for religion were some students from Muslim countries (in particular I remember a fellow from Pakistan). So no, just growing up is a Muslim country does not turn you into a believer.
I think you massively overestimate how culture supposedly deterministically railroads you into habits or belief systems. The whole reason why I chose philosophy as my study subject is because I questioned everything and needed a very good reason to reach a conclusion. You werenât ever going to sell me something âbecause wooâ. Gimme proof mthfkr, or f-off . Epistemology was my focus.
âThe supplements and medications you take were almost certainly first introduced to you by some sort of key opinion leader, influencer etc. You might have done your own research after, but your interest in this whole longevity space was probably guided from somewhere. Hope that makes better sense.â
Sadly, it makes no sense. Interest in longevity, again, very simple and self driven. I remember it distinctly - as Iâve written here before, it was a very early and lifelong obsession. Learning about death is what did it. Since I thought it absolutely final (again, never bought any nonsense about an afterlife!), it was obvious that life is all we have, and Iâd better stretch it as long as I possibly can - nobody had to guide me to this stunningly obvious conclusion (as a tyke, on my grandfatherâs knee, Iâd look up at him and ask about growing old, hoping for tips to avoid pitfalls, lol). From there, no , no influencers as such - I think your age is showing⌠Iâm a boomer, long before new social media and influencers. If you wanted info about the human body, you had textbooks. I read. A lot. Cross referenced. Interrogated the material. Supplements or drugs come to your attention not because of some clown on a screen or a street corner, but from studies and thought processes. IN OTHER WORDS JUDGEMENT. You have criteria, and you vet.
But this is getting away from the main thesis. I made a claim and still maintain that today we have more information, choices, access and sources than ever before. You took issue with that. I think your objection is manifestly at odds with reality. Surely, even in your own field you can perceive that the amount of knowledge cardiologists have at their disposal TODAY is orders of magnitude more than during boomer times (50â-70âs), and have more tools and choices than back in the day - only an idiot would deny that. Well, itâs the same in most other fields. Itâs a bald fact - today we have more info, access, tools and choices than ever before - exactly as I stated. What has not changed is the proportion of those who have judgement and those lacking it. Thatâs the real issue. More info and choices do you no good if you canât make the correct judgement. Exactly what I said. All your talk of teenagers on phones is irrelevant - I assure you clueless teenagers have always existed on their clay tablets and good judgement was just as scarce when we all huddled in caves - were it not so, weâd be colonising planets long ago instead of arguing over vaccines and the flat earth. I think what happened is that you made an objection to my claim (always a fraught propositionđ¤Ł), without thinking it through and were caught out defending an absurd series of propositions, denying the screaming obvious: we have more information, access, sources and choices, but not more good judgement, and in that environment the premium on good judgement keeps going up. Now you donât know how to climb down from that branch, and so youâll keep twisting in the wind, because I certainly am never going to accede to let nonsense standđ.
All in good fun. But seriously, question cliched narratives about anything, including social commentary about the perils of the digital world (or whatever newfangled thingamabob) and wayward youth - cause the âkids these daysâ playbook has been around since the dawn of time. The more noise talking heads make, the more you should question. So no more tired flimflam about brainwashed zombies in helpless thrall to hidden manipulators and cultural inevitabilities⌠if that were true no progress could ever be made and weâd still be swinging through trees. You canât reach for the stars that way.
We have more information, access and choices than ever before. That places ever greater premium on judgement, which sadly remains in deficit - as always. Hard - strike that - impossible to argue against. Welcome to try though𤣠- in which case âthe beatings will continue until morale improvesâ.
Thanks for the post. Maybe youâre right about me taking a position and then feeling like I should defend it. However, Iâm honestly not really interested in point scoring on the Internet, and I guess you probably donât care that much either! So how about this; I will say that I respect your position, though I donât totally agree. I can also believe that you have life experience and wisdom that I donât, and my more cynical and pessimistic view of things (perhaps British cultural influence!) might change in the future 
There was nice cold-and-warm optimism served on a nice silver platter and the olâ hand of pessimism struck it down. How you view things changes the world, at least for yourself. That I do believe.
Well, we agree: no interest in point scoring. This site is presumably dedicated to finding the truth in the area of health and longevity. Our recent exchanges have ventured far outside health and longevity, makes sense to drop it. I consider this tangent concludedđ.
But. When it comes to issues of health and longevity, the remit of this site, no such truce is possible - as Antoine and A_User say, âno, we can not agree to disagreeâ, because there can be no stopping the quest for truth in health and longevity, for to stop, is to die. We keep marching forward, and fighting to the very end.
Ridiculous, of course we can agree to disagree. (Maybe those two canât.)
In matters of health and longevity? Itâs a bit tongue in cheek, but itâs a useful reminder that in matters of life and death, you really do need to drive the search for truth and solutions to its ultimate end, hence stopping too soon âletâs agree to disagreeâ is somewhat deprecated.
In other matters, especially cultural issues, politics or religion, full agreement. Iâll go further, I donât even want to discuss those topics in the first place - you do you and I have zero to say. To each their own.
But matters of fact and reasoning in health? I argue not to convince you, but to find out if perhaps it is me who is wrong, and Iâm hoping youâll do me the courtesy and favor of getting me on the right path and correcting my errors. I am willing to do that for you, and so we hopefully argue until resolution or as close as we can get to it.
In the news today, and perhaps causal factors in the shorter expected lifespans of the Millennials:
Maybe these numbers have something to do with those numbers. The Top 1% of Americans Have Taken $50 Trillion From the Bottom 90%. (And this article is from back in 2020.)
âThere were 1,135 billionaires in the U.S. as of 2024âup from 927 in 2020, according to data from Altrata, a wealth-intelligence firm. The biggest concentration, 255 of them, is in California. But the super rich are also behind businesses in places such as Ridgeland, Miss., and Waunakee, Wisc. Collectively, these people are worth about $5.7 trillion.â What We Know About Americaâs Billionaires.
WSJNORCJuly2025.pdf (639.7 KB)
I can remember clearly how, in the mid-1980âs, Robert Reich predicted â and repeated endlessly to anyone who would listen â the precise situation we find ourselves in today (as reflected in these data), if we did not correct the rapidly expanding wealth gap. He also said the wealth gap would reach a tipping point marked by a slide into autocracy. None of this should be a surprise. The effects on health and lifespan are broad and complex. A lack of optimism can lead to depression and known links to illness and death, even excluding from substance abuse and suicide. Even when not so extreme, a lack of optimism and hopefulness can lead to poor self-care.
There are lots of drug overdose deaths in that age group.
