MK4 is thought to be too hydrophilic to operate in the ETC.
āUsing MK4 here.ā
āUsingā? How? K2 MK-4 dietary sources in quantity are almost exclusively animal, not vegetable. Were the mice fed mk-4? We know itās not gut bacteria derived. It can be synthesized in the body - I was assuming thatās what was happening in the mice, they were measuring mk-4 in the brains that was synthesized from dietary K1.
In any case it would make no sense to recommend:
āResearchers stress the importance of a healthy diet rich in leafy greens rather than relying on supplements to support brain health during aging.ā
Leafy greens have very little mk-4, so that would be an odd recommendation, if the idea was to get mk-4 from dietary sources. I assumed that they were recommending leafy greens for the K1 content, which then is converted to mk-4.
Also, I donāt understand this recommendation - the part where they urge against supplementing with VK. If it is indeed the VK thatās the active agent, what harm is there in supplementing with it? Is there any research showing K1 or K2, including mk-4 not being absorbed from supplements? Sounds like garbage generic advice - they should stick to the evidence and nothing more.
"Both Booth and Zheng emphasize that their research doesnāt mean that people should rush out and start taking vitamin K supplements.
āPeople need to eat a healthy diet,ā says Booth. āThey need to eat their vegetables.ā"
What is this sh|t? Vegetables may have all sorts of good effects, but this study is strictly about VK, and not vegetables. If you want to promote vegetables, do a study on those. This is about one component, and no evidence was given why VK supplements are inferior.
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I donāt have access to the whole paper unfortunately: Low Vitamin K Intake Impairs Cognition, Neurogenesis, and Elevates Neuroinflammation in C57BL/6 Mice 2025
Tufts University, Boston, so not too bad an institution.
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I have not measured any benefit in this area. I measure my HRV every morning for 5 years now. About 3 years ago I started both MK-7 and Nattokinase. I have not seen any change in my HRV or RHR that I could attribute to those 2 supplements.
I have seen significant benefit in other areas from the Nattokinase though. The effect is very noticeable and repeatable if I stop and start Nattokinase.
How much MK7 do you take? In which form?
We take 1 of these per day. Maybe our dose is too low??
Naka Platinum K2 (MK-7 form)100 mcg SUPER BONUS Size 330 Veggie Caps (300+30 FREE) Bioactive Form of Vitamin K2
And for Nattokinase - we take 2gm per day = 10,000FUās
Belle Chemical - Pure Organic Nattokinase Powder ā Non-GMO, Gluten Free, Vegan (454 grams)
I am experimenting with high doses. The highest so far is 50mg (which was a bottle and a half of mk7 in olive oil). I think it has dose dependent effects up to quite high levels. What I am doing, however, is taking a high dose on a single day and then stopping and tracking what happens as it goes back down. The half life is quite long (I think about 75 hours) that means that a single dose of x is equivalent at peak to a continuous dose of over x/5.
Iām taking 10x more MK7 (so 1,000 Āµg = 1 mg), in oil form.
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How did you settle on the dose? I ask, because I see recommendations all over the place, depending on what the aim is, bone health, CV, brain whatnot.
I take one of those Life extension Super K pills. Itās a mix of 2mg K1, 1mg K2 MK-4, 180mcg K2 MK-7 in extra virgin olive oil stabilized with 10mg vit C.
My thought was that if there is some persistence or accumulation of vitamin K on account of being fat soluble, then if you supplement long term, it matters less if you take in 200mcg or 500mcg daily in a long perspective. But maybe thatās wrong.
I feel better with 1 mg 
Might be placebo, I donāt know, but the higher the better and whenever I lower it I feel worse.
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I think the key distinction is whether or not there are at least 7 isoprene residues. This enables the molecule to be hydrophobic and sit in the mitochondrial membrane accepting electrons.
AIUI this makes the mitochondria more efficient. Obviously the more MK-7 molecules there are then the more it adds to efficiency.
It has a long half life (75 hours). Hence if you take 200 Ī¼g the steady state concentration is equivalent to the peak of a dose of 1mg and 500Ī¼g is 2.5mg.
The rat experiments had a NOAEL at about 5% of the diet. However, I am not inclined to go too high not least it starts getting quite expensive.
Would for me be 170g per day.
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Hi! How do you take the natto. Do you put it in capsules? I am thinking about that risk that the acidic environment in the stomach degrades it.
this is what AI told me:
"the acidic environment in the stomach can degrade nattokinase to some extent. Nattokinase is a serine protease enzyme, and like many proteins, it is susceptible to denaturation and breakdown in highly acidic conditions, such as those found in the stomach (pH 1.5ā3.5). The low pH can disrupt the enzymeās structure, potentially reducing its activity by the time it reaches the intestines, where it is typically absorbed and exerts its fibrinolytic (clot-dissolving) effects.
However, the degree of degradation depends on factors like the formulation of the nattokinase supplement. For example, enteric-coated capsules or other protective delivery methods can shield nattokinase from stomach acid, allowing it to pass into the small intestine relatively intact. Studies suggest that unprotected nattokinase may lose significant activity in the stomach, but precise data on its stability varies. Research on similar enzymes indicates that while some activity may survive gastric conditions, protective measures improve its bioavailability."
The stomach acid level is variable and can be āimprovedā with water 
In the morning when I up up I drink 10 oz of water to increase the pH. A bit later is when I take any meds, with 8 oz of water.
Before I have my morning shake, which has many things, including 2gm of Nattokinase I drink another 10 oz of water.
Regardless of the ādegradationā potential, I do experience a benefit from the 2gm in my shake. I can definitely feel pain relief and the opposite if I miss the shake.
You should do what works for you.
The circadian pattern of gastric acid secretion across a 24-hour period. Notes: The relationship between basal acid secretion (total H= in eq/h), volume (mL/h), and gastric pH is shown for a group of healthy male subjects. Note the peak acid secretion is just before midnight. Copyright Ā© 2006, John wiley and Sons. Reproduced from: Moore JG. Circadian dynamics of gastric acid secretion and pharmacodynamics of H2 receptor blockade. Ann NY Acad Sci. 1991;618:150-158. 22 Abbreviations: H+, acid secretion; h, hour; meq, milliequivalent.
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I cam across this podcast with Patrick Theut, note he does sell his own vitamin K, yet he also links to a lot of studies and information on MK7. I learned a lot from this interview.
Reverse Heart Disease: Patrick Theutās Journey & Vitamin K
Thereās a fair bit of Vitamin K information here, also what are people thoughts on this product?