This is really weird. The interaction between doxycycline and iron is extremely well known (it’s written on the box): doxycycline does not lower iron levels but iron lowers doxycycline absorption. Are there sources confirming that doxycycline use can lower ferritin? High ferritin can be a sign of inflammation and doxycycline might have anti-inflammatory properties, which could explain your finding?
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Somebody posted here about how they use doxycycline with DMSA to enhance the chelation. I checked google scholar and sure enough, unless I read it wrong, found a couple papers that showed (particularly iron) doxycycline being used. Now I can’t find them and will be busy for awhile today, will work on it again later.
I have used doxycycline with a couple of my weekly oral DMSA doses, but have not tested anything myself. I’m not too serious about regularly using an antibiotic. It will be a couple months before I do another ferritin.
It caught my eye more because my daughter is using it with IV vitamin C a couple times a week to fight cancer and she is anemic.
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One question would be, if your ferritin is already low, would the DMSA have a harmful effect, or would it reduce the lead (and other metals?) without further reducing the ferritin?
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Logic doesn’t always work with this medical stuff, but I would think a chelator would tie up the first thing it sees. So if I have a ferritin of 300 then it will get way more of that than if I have a ferritin of 50. Unfortunately same for the lead. It works way better if you have a huge problem than if you’re trying to lower a number that’s not so bad. I may be doing more harm than good at this point.
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I have low ferritin. What are the best iron supplements? Bryan Johnson takes proferrin: Ferritin a response on GRG (Gerontological Research Group) - #18 by AnUser
And the ITP is now testing lactoferrin.
What are the pros and cons of each (and others)?
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Bryan was (also?) taking lactoferrin, but has stopped recently because of apparently elevated Hemoglobin levels from it:
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Thanks, good to know.
Lactoferrin seems interesting:
- Neuroprotective Effects of Lactoferrin in Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s Diseases: A Narrative Review 2023
- Lactoferrin: neuroprotection against Parkinson’s disease and secondary molecule for potential treatment 2023
- The effect of lactoferrin in aging: role and potential 2022: “Thus, LF is expected to be able to attenuate the process of aging and greatly ameliorate its effects.”
- Lactoferrin improves cognitive function and attenuates brain senescence in aged mice 2020: “Lactoferrin decreases iron deposits in the brains of aged mice.”
- A nutritional supplement containing lactoferrin stimulates the immune system, extends lifespan, and reduces amyloid β peptide toxicity in Caenorhabditis elegans 2017: “Lactoferrin is a highly multifunctional glycoprotein involved in many physiological functions, including regulation of iron absorption and immune responses.”
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Is proferrin just the brand name of a form of lactoferrin?! It’s unclear: Dairy-based bioactive ingredients - Ingredia Dairy Experts
[EDIT: No, the above website is just garbage, proferrin and lactoferrin are totally different and Bryan used to take both: https://web.archive.org/web/20240229111519/https://protocol.bryanjohnson.com/ ]
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Iron bisglycinate is the gold standard iron supplement. The most bioavailable with the least side effects. I got my ferritin up with it once.
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That does sound better than heme iron supplements.
How low? Low ferritin might be a good longevity phenotypes if not too crazy low.
Bryan was supplementing to go from super low to still low.
The top CR people generally have low ferritin.
Low ferritin in a healthy longevity optimizer might be a good sign and not a bad.
Of course you want to be extra careful at checking that not due to colon cancer and extreme edge cases around any key gut issues.
Before:
- Iron: 19 µmol/L
- Ferritin: 23 µg/L (fluctuated around 20 in previous tests, as low as 18)
- Total Iron Binding Capacity (TIBC): 63 µmol/L
- Transferrin: 2.7 g/L
- Transferrin Saturation: 30%
After 2 months of Spatone (iron rich water + vitamin C to increase absorption):
- Iron: 25 µmol/L
- Ferritin: 23 µg/L
- Total Iron Binding Capacity (TIBC): 72 µmol/L
- Transferrin Saturation: 35%
So ferritin still seems low to me. No? (It might take more time to replenish iron stores?)
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AIUI a low ferritiin is a sign of lower inflammation. Not so much crazy low though.
My recent ferritins have been: 57, 64, 52, 60, 24, 48, 72, 58 (same units)
My irons have been 20.1, 24.5, 20.6, 17.3, 28.1, 26.9, 20.5 (same units)
The low ferritin was with a different lab that did a same day test which might mean it is more accurate for ferritin I don’t know.
I do lots of odd things to my metabolism, but am not doing anything deliberately to affect iron metabolism. What I would say is that my weekly measurements have a broader range than your measurements.
One thing I like about weekly measurements is it is possible to see to some extent what variation is meaningless.
However, the main labs I am using at the moment are postal or not otherwise same day (one is same day, but it takes me a lot of time to drive there and back so I am not generally inclined to use it).
I am pleased with my ferritin results in the round as I started a couple of years ago with: 420, 337, 358, 328, 332
Hence clearly there has been a big drop in Ferritin. Iron is if anything slightly up.
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Forgive me if you’ve already mentioned this but do you feel tired? Losing some hair strands? Dry skin?
All symptoms of iron deficiency.
Ok, found something that says tetracyclines are chelators:
Tetracyclines are established chelators [3], [4], [5], with a high affinity for copper, iron and zinc, and lower affinities for magnesium and calcium [3,4,6]. Tetracyclines bind to the 30S bacterial ribosome through a magnesium bridge [7,8]. Abundant metals, such as iron, may interfere with this mechanism by binding to the magnesium binding site. The working hypothesis for the current study is that CP762 sequesters iron thereby minimising iron-binding to other ligands, e.g., tetracycline. This will promote complexation with lower affinity ions, such as magnesium, required for binding to the bacterial ribosome.
From this paper:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857921007196
It looks like it mostly chelates good things, but among them is Iron, which can be good or bad. Hard to say.
This is just FYI since you mentioned it before.
Nope. Not these symptoms. Maybe more dark circles under the eyes than I used to, which can be a sign of iron deficiency I think?
Blood donation today. Every 3 months like clockwork.
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Does seem low. Not sure how bad/risky that is. Might have been coming down too, and is even lower than yours and I had begun researching it when I mentioned the point about the CR optimizers generally end up with low levels. I’ll try and discuss with doctors more.
One thing you might want to do out of an abundance of caution is the do some test to rule out colon cancer, eg the colon guard stool test if you don’t want to go full colonoscopy at your age.
Or since you are in the UK you can leverage that
The NHS uses a colon capsule endoscopy (CCE), also known as a pillcam colon or video capsule endoscopy (PillCam), as an alternative to a colonoscopy to examine the colon for abnormalities
(Think Bryan Johnson did/does something like that too)
NHS England » NHS rolls out capsule cameras to test for cancer.
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How come you chose this way to start your supplementation?
Detailed podcast on iron from Vyvyane Loh MD
“ Most people with anemia or iron overload don’t think about their immune system but iron levels are very closely linked to inflammation in your body. Learn the details on the regulation of iron stores in the body and the importance of macrophages in iron cycling. Find out how iron impacts insulin sensitivity and metabolic health and what happens when iron is deposited in your brain. liver and other organs.”
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