OneSkin has an interesting history. They certainly didn’t set out to market a skin cream but that was the only thing they could get funding for. I recommend trying it. I used it on my face and on my left hand and arm. Originally nothing on my right arm and then my rapamycin cream on my right hand and arm. The left hand and arm won. But definitely wear sunscreen when you use it.
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I’ve read this entire thread a few times (although focus and reading comprehension may be an issue) and must confess I am confused a bit with one aspect of a Rapamycin based skin treatment. (I’m not doubting it is effective, but only in how to integrate it with other therapies). I am working on incorporating the terrific ideas here in this threat, with some “regrowth/rejuvenation” from GSK-Cu or other potential compounds, as well as hyarulonic acid. I am thinking of two different water/DMSO spray treatments daily: one in the morning (with Rapamycin) and one at night (with retinol-A), and similar for a @Agetron hair tonic but with some slightly different ingredients). But I am confused based on my (simplistic) assumptions of how the main ingredients will impact my hair/skin:
o. Rapamycin inhibits MTOR so should slow cellular aging by slowing cells from reacting to stimulus?
o. Retinol-A (or other potent vitamin A derivatives) stimulate “regrowth” (I assume through killing the already-near-death surface cells)?
o. There are other serums which promote cellular regrowth, to thicken skin and regain elasticity? Topical GSK-Cu in DMSO is the one I’ve selected but others are suggested as well.
o. There are hydrating elements such as hyarulonic acid which have good impact on adding moisture (and thus volume) to skin, as well as skin health. Won’t this clash with retinol-A impacts?
I’m thinking of two separate “serums”:
MORNING: Rapamycin in sparing DMSO and water, sprayed on skin (and hair with minoxidil).
NIGHT: retinol-A in sparing DMSO and water, sprayed on skin (and minoxidil for hair)
Where do I put the regrowth/rejuvenation compound (GSK-Cu)? Where do I put the hyarulonic acid? Do I need to use different serums in alternating weeks?
The most common protocol for oral Rapamycin seems to be a “pulsed” approach of weekly or every two weeks. Why are we administering topical Rapamycin daily on skin instead of “pulsed”? — won’t that negate some of the positive impacts of cellular regrowth? (This must mot be an issue because I see many of you are using this protocol with high effectiveness, and dr green and others have prescribed this to many patients for years and might have noticed if it wasn’t working)
I see some people using Retinol-A (etc) daily topically on their skin (perhaps nat might) and Rapamycin daily as well (perhaps in the morning). Don’t these two effectively cancel each other out? (I don’t think they do because some of you are using this protocol will high effectiveness)
If I want to incorporate a regrowth/rejuvenation element such as GSK-Cu into a topical treatment, won’t this negate the effects of Rapamycin (or vice versa)? Will I this need to pulse my treatments every few days/weekly to see benefits from both protocols? For that matter, won’t this clash with the Reitmo-A treatment as well?
If I want to incorporate a hydrating element such as hyarulonic acid into a topical treatment, wouldn’t this clash with the Retinol-A treatment and be better with the Rapamycin treatment?
I’d love to hear thoughts on this, and especially where I’ve erred. Thank you.
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At this time I am using the mister/spray every other day or so. Sometimes I forget to use it so sometimes it might be 3 or 4 days between applications. Also, when I run out I take a break before I make a new batch.
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FWIW there are lots of otc serums that combine HA and retinol.
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They have at best a temporary effect. The one major paper on mesotherapy with Rejuran Healer was retracted due to a conflict of interest. Stick with tretinoin (thousands of studies confirmed benefits) or tazarotene. You can microneedle with it. Also use very high UVA protection sunscreens (European or Asian).
Any other regular use topicals will pale in comparison.
Microneedling itself may have some benefit, probably more so for younger people because the collagen building response is blunted after age 40. Home peels might have some benefit, depending on the pH, vehicle, concentration, and frequency. Anything else is likely to provide dubious value or have insufficient evidence.
And yes, I’ve microneedled with PDRN, exosomes, HA cocktails, and even botox. I’m not impressed, but I’ve been DIYing for decades now.
After 46 years of tret/taz and 30 years of high UVA protection sunscreens (+ hat/visor/sunglasses) these still impress me. Also–they are cheap!
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It is really sad that the FDA has made it impossible for the United States to avail itself of any of the significant advances in sunscreen protection over the past 30-50 years.
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Everyone should read this before forking out $$$ on peptides of dubious value.
Bos JD, Meinardi MMHM. The 500 Dalton rule for the skin penetration Jan D. Bos and
of chemical compounds and drugs. Exp Dermatol 2000: 9: 165–169
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1034/j.1600-0625.2000.009003165.x
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I agree that sunshine is important, and for more than Vit D. Vit D plays a role but can be considered a marker of sufficient sunshine. I’ve been told that just a few minutes a day can be enough (varies by latitude, season, and person). The rules given to me: never burn, always wear a hat (cover head and neck), after exposure use clothes for protection (sunscreen is hard to apply well and doesn’t last), get skin checked regularly.
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I’m using Sunprise sunscreen now. It gives a very smooth application and smells good. The bottle though is so small. If used for the whole body it’ll last couple days only. I use it for hands and face only. It’s an excellent product. Thank you for recommending.
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I’m so glad you like it. Yes, I use it on my face only. I’m still on the hunt for a good sunscreen for body.
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I just learned that opaque lipsticks provide excellent sun protection. From now on, I’ll be sure to always wear lipstick when I go outside. Apparently, lips can get skin cancer too.
Lipsticks provide excellent photoprotection if they are completely opaque. As a matter of fact, opaque lipsticks provide better photoprotection than SPF-containing lip balms because they have an unlimited SPF and excellent substantivity. Substantivity is the ability of the lipstick to remain in place on the lip. Products that stay on better provide superior longer-lasting photoprotection. The best lip sunscreen for female patients with actinic chelitis is an opaque lipstick.
What are the current thoughts about pulsed topical application vs daily? Unless there’s something special about skin or the topical route, pulsed would make more sense given what we know about how rapamycin works in the body.
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I read the paper you posted. Are you saying at because this research postulates a (roughly) 500 Dalton limit on penetration of the skin, that peptides are not useful? If this is true (the 500 Dalton limit) this means that peptides under 10 amino acids are roughly below this limit and thus would be fine.
A line from the introduction of the paper caught my eye: “ The use of skin penetration enhancerssuch as dimethylsulphoxide or carriers such asliposomes have never been confirmed to make a difference.” This genuinely surprised me as there is a massive amount of material safety data on DMSO (as a highly-utilized industrial solvent), so I would assume it has exhaustively tested. My first (uneducated) instinct is that this statement in the paper is incorrect.
(And I never understood why biochemists use Daltons instead of g/mol — they are in the same order of magnitude.)
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Do you mind if I ask how old you are? I’m interested in potentially adding a treatment (already using tretinoin once or twice a weekl) to my skincare routine, but as a healthy 38 year old with naturally darker olive skin and not much visible skin aging, I’m mainly focused on prevention. Wondering if OneSkin fits that bill, or does the claimed focus on senescence contraindicate its use for younger people (who presumably have negligible senescence to)?
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Why do you say use suncreen? Not that you shouldn’t wear it anyway (and I do) but does it exhibit a photosensitizing effect, similar to tretinoin?
For much larger molecules, little bit might get in, but only very sparingly, and with great difficulty, unless the skin barrier function is somehow compromised. It’s better to stick with the actives that do not exceed 500 Dalton greatly. There are only two peptides that come close as far as I know–Argireline (888 g/mol) and Matrixyl (802 g/mol). The others, usually much larger, probably provide a temporary plumping effect, being trapped in the epidermis, and not much else.
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I’m 48, although I usually get mistaken for someone younger. By coincidence this was the marketing mail from Oneskin I received today.
Similarly when I was 38 I had very negligible signs of aging. My wife is ten years younger and people have always assumed we’re the same age. I wish this product had have been on the market a decade ago.
I assume that you might see less improvement if you’ve taken care of your skin. I moved to California and had assumed that my great skin was genetic, and I neglected to wear sunscreen, turns out that was a terrible assumption. Oneskin had a significant improvement on my skin, initially tightening it, but I’ve using it for a few years now and well, time waits for no man, but it’s definitely helped. As I’ve suggested before it’s worth trying once to see if you see any improvement. In my case it was quite stark, but I hadn’t been taking care of skin. I’m sure it works well as a presentative and should delay the signs of aging. Hope that helps.
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Interesting, this is what I wanted to know. Not to be a jerk or anything, but sometimes you hear about a product being effective and then you read studies and reviews and everyone using it is 65 or older, so a young person is less likely to receive any benefit. Do you think there’s merit in using it two or three times per week?
I followed their suggestions for the first month and used it twice a day morning and night, which is when I saw the most benefit. Then I switched to once a day. My wife uses it less frequently and I think she’s seen less improvement but she’s a decade younger. I’d suggest trying it and following the recommendations for the first month to see if you see a noticeable improvement, then if you felt it helped you could use it less frequently, as there’s definitely a cost consideration.
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hmmm… sounds like a new ED treatment, but its not…
EASYSTIFF®, a portable and innovative device able to separately analyze each skin compartment for the evaluation of mechanical properties.
Human skin is submitted to various factors leading to either extrinsic or intrinsic aging. In addition to inducing molecular and morphological changes, skin aging is characterized by modifications in skin biomechanical properties modifications. These modifications can be used as biomarkers to both evaluate the degree of advancement in skin aging but also to detect potential pathologies. Hence, it is from critical interest to be able to evaluate skin biomechanical properties to fully detect and monitor these alterations. Here we introduce a portable and innovative device, EASYSTIFF®, which is thought to in vivo measure stiffness properties of skin. Based on indentation principle, EASYSTIFF® allows to identify both global stiffness of skin (all confounded cutaneous compartment) or compartmentalized stiffness, in which stiffness values of each compartment, i.e., the stratum corneum, the epidermis, the dermis and the hypodermis, are separately analyzed. Thus, EASYSTIFF® is a complementary tool to 2D and 3D in/ex vivo model and an alternative to existing devices that measure skin mechanical properties, for assessing the effectiveness of cosmetic products, monitoring skin stiffness over time and to provide better understanding in the evolution of skin mechanical properties.
Gael Runel, Jean-Andre Lapart and Julien Chlasta
bioRxiv. posted 15 July 2023, 10.1101/2023.07.13.548841
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