Feedback on Ben Bikman's questionable claim to not take Rapamycin

I think I’ll go with Dr. Blagosklonny on this one. I advise my patients that cyclic rapamycin generally should protect from sarcopenia.

This is the basis of my advice.
https://www.mikhailblagosklonny.com/blog/how-rapamycin-prevents-muscle-loss-and-sarcopenia-first-draft/

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Out of curiosity (and I know there is no definitive answer on this but what cycle would you suggest?

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I’ve complained many times before about the idea that you can somehow bank up fitness for old age. I assume this is the viewpoint the original post is coming from, and there’s not really much evidence to support it.

If, instead, we take the minimal evidence backed claim that one should maintain full physical function throughout life then the complaint here becomes a non-issue for those of us who are in good health. We can simply keep track of our fitness, and if we start losing strength (which is a slow process, and anecdotally uncommon) then adjust dosage or discontinue.

People who already suffer from frailty or for whatever other reason need to gain strength quickly might have a more difficult decision.

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I’m 165 lbs, I do 8 mg every 8 days. This basically has me ~40 hrs or so over a level of 3, and the other 6 days in recovery.
I can let you know what I recommend for my patients - again, only theory, no proof - but safety is important. I don’t like to see more the 30-35% of the time that the level is >3. So I have some folks who want a high level, theoretically for neurocognitive decline - some of them get a level at 20-24 hrs, then a repeat in 48 hours so I can assess half life and then we can do the math. I have some on dosing that has a level ~9-10 at 24 hrs, then a metabolic half life of 40 hrs for example - so there will be ~4 days or so with a level >3, in this example, so I’d not want them dosing more often than every 12 days if that is what the math worked out to.

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Thanks for the info, just to clarify, “over a level of 3” you mean concentration in blood, right?

@SNK Thanks for sharing! One potential thing is that you may push things to much when you take Rapamycin if you already are taking lots of other things. Here is an interesting timeclip from the researcher Brian Kennedy on the topic.

So I think it’s important to find different ways to measure if things are going in the wrong direction. Max push ups is one way but it’s also good to have other measurements. On below page you can see some measurements I use and I felt progress on Rapamycin. One thing I have recently added is bar hanging also as one measurement.

@DrFraser It was a randomized trial and a wash out period of 2-4 weeks between each arm. It’s a interesting data point but I feel as you that they could have improved the trial much more in different ways.

@blsm Thanks for sharing. Please share your measurements :pray:

@JKPrime I also practice CR combined with Rapamycin. But I would classify it as mild CR. How big CR are you practicing?

@desertshores How do you measure that you have added muscle mass? Dexa scan or in some other way?

@Lost Well said about the thing that if things are going in the wrong direction then adjusments needs to be done in for example dose or time interval or even to stop taking it.

@DrFraser Very interesting dose regime to use 8 days interval! That way the dosing weekday differs from one week to another. There is something I like with this. I need to think a bit on it.

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Being a gym rat as far as doing moderate exercise regularly, I take regular measurements of my muscle size while maintaining a near-continuous BMI of 22.5 for the last ~ 3 years. Several of us on the forum are conducting a friendly competition to see if we can maintain weight and muscle mass.

Don’t laugh at the photo, after all, I am 83 years old and not a bodybuilder. (And yes, I am no@Bicept)

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Thank you for sharing. Impressive really. You are taking a good care of yourself and doing something very positive. When I exercise, I see a guys hanging out together at the park and smoking, they look aged and in poor shape…

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No one’s laughing, I promise :wink:

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@Krister_Kauppi, here you go sir.
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Sorry @RapAdmin, I know every time I post pictures you have to fix something! Forgive me sir. The first two are from yesterday and the last two are from October of 2022.

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daily ~20% calorie reduction

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Its not you. I’ve set the software to automatically make the images full width of the message area, which is fine for most photos. But the phone screen shots are all vertical format, so I just adjust them to be more the actual size. No problem.

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I just must say - you are incredible! Love the photo, and also love your posts and intellect!

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I likely have a reasonable amount of time in recovery, and I have things I cycle in during recovery also. The 8 days works well for me. Other people like having a plan on a weekly basis. I like having a migrating schedule as I have things that I do on M/W/F, and things I do every 6 days, and things I’d not do while having MTORC1 inhibition.

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Great post. On point.

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Thank you for starting this thread, it’s been very informative (and thanks to all the contributors). As of this post I’ve been on 10mg Rapamycin once weekly for almost 18 months - first in the PEARL clinical trial and then in the AgelessRx continuation program. I have noticed an apparent reduction in strength in my arms, but not much in my legs (I do a lot of squats). Quantitatively I’ve seen a small (1.5%) reduction in lean muscle mass (but also a significant reduction in visceral body fat), in 3 DXA scans over this 18 month period. I have found when I focused on regular arm exercises, there was a rebound in “felt” muscular strength. Recently on the advice of a sports medicine physician, I’ve raised my protein intake to about 120g per day, and started taking an EAA (essential amino acid) supplement at 1g per day. And I’m aiming to be even more diligent about regular full body exercises. My belief based on my experience is that there’s an adverse effect on muscular strength from Rapa if you don’t exercise, but you can overcome this with exercise. Your body responds when you ask it to!

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Interesting… I had been doing muscle resistance exercises a few years prior to starting on rapamycin. I have shredded fat in the muscles… but muscles and tendons retain strength… actually stronger. Increasing my lifts by 10 pounds every 3-4 months. Very strong right now.

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@tahoedenizen

Can you please share what percent reduction in visceral fat you’ve seen from the Dexa scans?

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A 30 percent reduction – actual numbers from 3.34 lb (uncomfortably high) to 2.34 lb visceral body fat, straight from the DexaFit app which saves the data from the scans.

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30 percent seems like quite a win. !

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