While what you said is still reasonable, some points may be misleading.
Firstly Attia is a fitness guru he isnt phenomenal in terms of ideas on dietary practices for antiaging.
Secondly the concept of CR and the concept of ideal dietary composition are two important but different things. Effects of one will never make redundant the effects of the other, no matter what people say.
Dietary fiber, from food, not supplements is very important for a number of reasons mentioned elsewhere.
I’m not sure what level of intake is optimal but I suspect it’s around 1.3 g/kg of body weight. That pretty much means a plant-based diet for most people.
I don’t believe that we do optimally on emphasizing overt fats, but I see no harm in using them sparingly.
I don’t believe we need 1 g protein/lb of bodyweight when elderly. The Okinawan Centenarians were at less than 1 g per kg. I suspect that one of the reasons they find that higher intakes are “necessary” to prevent frailty/sarcopenia is that the GI tract gets all kinds of messed up with age especially on standard diets. If we could prevent that, we wouldn’t need to add more protein.
Here’s an article that I found fascinating on protein. If it’s posted elsewhere already I apologize.
A big part of the reason low protein extends lifespan is because then theres a slight insufficiency the body inhibits mtor and slow down a lot of the functions to adapt. By having a abundant supply it completely wipes away the longevity effects. Health is not the same as slower aging.
@arugula Yes that 1g per lb of weight is an extremely high amount. Longevity guidelines suggests around a third of that for non-elderly.
Does this “MTOR effect” happen only because of sufficient/excess protein, or because of sufficient/excess macronutrients in general? That is, if you cut calories drastically but ate “sufficient” protein does MTOR still ramp? I’ve done both longish (four day) water fasts and also tried doing these “protein-sparing” fasts where you eat nothing but a few chicken breasts a day, and I can say they both feel very similarly difficult (the regular water fasts are a bit easier because I’m not near food). I’m not measuring MTOR activity on an hourly basis so one could say they aren’t the same, but excess protein without the rest of macros seems much more like a fast than a feast.
@Ericross2 So for example say you have a period of low cal, but normal protein. Yes mtor will be lower than the same protein with other calories, but it will be higher than the same low cal but evenly low. Protein also will divert more focus onto reproductive functions and hormones like IGF-1 , independant of calories…
So maybe the answer is happier people live longer, and food is not the variable.
It is a bit more complex IMO, but I think being happy and happiness in a major drive in life. Being happy and not to stressed, worried, in constant flight / fight mode is what matter most. Stress and mental unsoundness drive so many processes in body that generate autoimmune responses, oxidative responses etc. at the end speed up aging, make you feel worse and it is a perfect snowball to premature loss of health and longevity.
The other major implication is use it or loose it principle which can both be applied to mind and body. You need to be active in any possible way that makes you feel good but keep the self destructive tendencies we all have at check.
For example researching ASCVD I came across a major risk factor that is rarely mentioned besides apoB (or LDL-C) and this are oxidized phospholipids which are a major drive of atherosclerosis and they drive ASCVD independently of apoB and inflammatory processes create them and stress is a major drive of inflammation. Same with high levels of LDL-C, which can be driven by cortisol and chronic stress. And this is just ASCVD and just a small part of look behind the obvious. Stress, anxiety impact your diet, exercise and sleep and the all correlate with your health and well-being…
We are zeroing in on an answer that makes sense
In order of priority (my opinion):
What did I miss or get wrong?
Agree completely with @Joseph_Lavelle and @scta123. I would like to shift back to the protein issue. IMO there is a distinct lack of clarity of protein and its effects on longevity/healthspan. In animal studies it’s pretty clear that you can extend lifespan via protein restriction…I’m not arguing that. (Although there was an Australian mouse study that looked at various diets and the ad libitinum fed mice on a 40% protein diet lived the longest) But there are a couple of flavors of protein restriction. You can restrict all protein or you can restrict certain amino acids (tryptophan, methionine and BCAAs). What’s not clear is that the mechanisms are exactly the same across these different flavors. The common mechanism appears to be MTOR inhibition. This gets complicated with its translation to humans. We know protein is an activator of MTOR, particularly BCAAs can activate MTOR through certain mechanisms (through sestrins, etc.) So, it seems that protein restriction would be great in humans as it “turns down” MTOR and BCAAs in the diet would hyperactivate it. The thing that seems important in total protein restriction is the effect on FGF21 which is secreted in response to a low protein diet and affects MTOR and IGF-1. The question, however, is can protein restriction be separated from caloric restriction. What I believe was found was that if you restricted things like tryptophan and methionine, mice actually ate more, didn’t gain weight and lived a little longer. The exact way methionine affects the whole process is still being parsed out. There’s also the complication that inhibiting MTOR inhibits protein synthesis overall.
The question then comes to be how long is MTOR inhibited after the ingestion of protein. This is difficult as well because it probably has to do with what you eat with the protein, when you eat the protein and how much protein. If I recall correctly, studies which looked at the leucine sensor on MTOR, found that BCAAs significantly effect MTOR but for a very brief period of time. We also need to consider that it’s not how high MTOR signaling gets or for how long, but also where. This is made most obvious by Rapa not inhibiting muscle growth despite inhibiting MTOR. It doesn’t inhibit growth in mice, humans or dogs despite everyone saying for years that it would.
The difficulty for humans is that there is a plethora of problems when they are under muscled. Muscles are the single largest sink for glucose and responsible for glucose homeostasis, to say nothing of the impact of sarcopenia. We don’t do any studies with mice or primates in a setting where sarcopenia or osteoporosis is problematic. Yet in humans over 75 the percentage of people suffering from both is considerable and their activity level and muscle mass is at a low. I would argue that longevity doesn’t matter if your body structure is poor. Protein combined with hypertrophy training is need for body structural support.
This shifts us to the study by Longo looking at protein consumption and all cause mortality as a function of age. The message was that low protein was beneficial up to a certain age then after attaining a certain age you wanted higher protein. The question here, though is what are the relative effects. The relative impact of the low protein diet early in life would have to be an order of magnitude greater than the relative impact of the high protein impact later in life. Meaning the benefit you would get from a high protein diet over a certain age would outweigh any detriment you would have from starting earlier. Then the question is, are there studies on frailty, a low protein diet and resistance exercise? I’m not sure.
I guess the point I’m getting at is that protein and longevity/healthspan in humans is murky at best. We’d need to answer if low protein and resistance exercise in people over a certain age can stave off sarcopenia or osteoporosis, because we know high protein can. We’d also need to answer if extended lifespan with low protein comes with any associated risks we wouldn’t see in mouse or primate studies. We’d also need to answer whether mice have a higher tolerance for low protein diets than humans. I don’t know the answer to any of these, nor do I know the answer to the high or low protein question (and what the true definition of high or low protein is as measured by mg/kg/d, different studies define it different ways).
The bottom line to me is whatever beliefs we have we can probably find studies to back it up. I lean toward high protein, but thoroughly respect those who don’t. We’ll only know how well we did once we cross the finish line.
Here is the Longo study for reference:
https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(14)00062-X
Theres really imo no such confusion. Sometimes its ok for people to just say they dont like or want to do something due to their preferences. The benefit of low-protein is antiaging , the benefit of higher protein in old age is simply a matter of structural support to prevent frailty induced problems. These may appear similar in that they both reduce mortality but the reason is completely different.
I apologize if it came off preachy, that wasn’t my intention. I was merely trying to say that I can see both sides of the protein coin and don’t know the answer as it pertains to me in particular (I’m 57).
I would just really like to find some solid answers to questions and it gets tough trying to sift through data which, many times, seems to contradict itself.
Interesting finding in the Supplemental Tables.
The high protein group averaged 1593.6 kcals/day, the low protein group 1965.6, and the moderate protein group 1862.5. I wonder how much of an impact this might have had for the reduced mortality observed in the high protein group after age 65.
All groups had BMIs 27-28.
(edited to add, I am not sure how 1593.6 kcals/day can sustain a person with BMI 27, other than the known fact that subjects in dietary recall studies are liars).
It’s an important set of questions.
I have been on a high protein diet of one sort or another for my entire life. Protein was the “good” macro. And I like it. I always felt it was satiating. I am trying to weaning myself off 1g/lbs/day. My protein habit is slowing my transition but I am moving toward high protein in the 24 hours after weight training (3x/wk), but low protein around rapa/endurance exercise. I don’t really have a target yet but I say I’m moving toward 100g/day (down 50%). I too would be interested in knowing facts, particularly around methionine (drives IGF?..ratio of methionine to glycine?..and, should I avoid isoleucine?
Whole grains, and all grains in general are BAD for you, avoid them at all cost. Of course, you need a healthy dose of fiber (for good health) and that fiber should come from flax seed, and SOME fruits and vegies. 80-90%of your diets (which btw should never be more 1600 calories per day) should come from protein and healthy fats (all animal fats are healthy btw if they are organic, and few plant fats are healthy also such as organic olive oil, and nuts). Everything you eat (again never more than 1600 calories per day) should ideally come from organic sources. One word of caution: Do not believe the hype about the plant protein. Plant protein is NEVER as good as meat or fish protein (again organic or wild caught), Lastly, do fast for couple days every now and then if you can. I tend to have hard time doing it but boy do I ever feel 20 younger when i manage two-three full days without food.
The funny part, or not so good part is, your libido (if you are a male) goes down on days you fast, so you better make sure your partner is not that hungry in that department before you start fasting lol.
Initially when i realized that to be the case i thought perhaps fasting is not that healthy to start with, but then with further dwelling into it (basically going back to basics of how thing/life works) I quickly realized the reason for that is because the creator, or (evolution for the Darwinian crowd) made sure that not much is happening behind the curtains when people are in short supply of food, so the fewer off spring will be born. No worries though the libido comes back roaring with your first bite of food lol.
I also have those debates, along with vegetable vs animal sourced proteins and the quality/bioavailability of the protein. This was posted in another section, but it certainly seems to be relevant here. It’s less about longevity and more about health, but I’d love to know your opinion.
I eat about 2400 kCal per day (16-18% body fat). I’d shrivel up on 1600. I exercise a lot and am a bigger person (height and muscle mass) so perhaps we are different animals.
I also eat zero grains but I can’t believe all grains are unhealthy. I’m thinking of starting back on steelcut oats for my low protein days. I agree that fasting is excellent medicine but I’m not sure how to layer it into my rapa schedule. Perhaps I should do a fast when I take a rapa holiday?
It’s another interesting question. I’d like to think that the plant sources are just as good as long as you get enough of the essential proteins. Then we can get all the other plant sourced benefits at the same time. Even if we had to supplement leucine it would be worth it. I am not doing that yet but want to transition to it as I can. I’m currently addicted to fish and Greek yogurt.
Slicing and dicing it way too many pieces. no need to be so specific as this much protein per lb of weight and when is best to have it etc… just people having nothing better to do with their lives lol. I’ll give you the best advice you will ever hear:
So, there you have it. Eating healthy dilemma solved for good lol. Thats all there is to eating healthy and frankly staying healthy and also living a very long healthy life. I am a firm believer that if someone did just the above, they could easily live to 110-120 years. BTW i am a bit of a lazy dude and don’t quite follow my advice(as much as i would like), but I’m working toward doing exactly JUST that.