I haven’t tried Filorga NCTF 135 HA yet, but I wanted to get both. However, Cytocare is currently stocked, while NTCF isn’t. They seem similar products, and I tried Sunekos a few months ago, which also seemed similar. I really liked Sunekos, but it required injections. I’ll probably still use Sunekos in a few months, especially around my eyes, where I really liked the results.
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But you’ll be able to use Sunekos with DEP, no? Injection optional now.
Do you think it would be possible to use DEP for the perioral area? That would be great!
I use it no problem. In fact I think the absorption happens faster there as the skin is thinner. On the flip side I can only go 1-2 on the current, not 3. It’s too sensitive. I’ve absolutely seen penetration though. For the upper eyelid I just avoid using it directly over the eyeball. I pull the skin up over the brow bone and that takes care of that. Obviously can’t do the lash line.
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Digging in a bit deeper (so to speak) into this issue of whether increasing the current (and likely the pain) when using the device, would result in additional benefits. Of course we have other variables, like the fact that we don’t know if the Chinese DEP products are actually comparable to the Mattioli DEP device.
My query:
Is there any scientific or clinical evidence to suggest that if you raise the current being used in the DEP device (turning the dial up to 5 instead of 2 or 3) results in greater penetration of the solution / liquid and delivery of it deeper into the skin layers?
GPT5
Short answer: “Turning the dial up” can increase delivery, but it doesn’t straightforwardly make it go deeper. In electroporation/DEP, the key control variable is the electric field (volts per centimeter) at the skin—not the displayed current.
What the evidence says
- Electroporation effectiveness scales with the electric field and pulse design (amplitude, width, number of pulses, electrode spacing). Stronger fields open more/longer-lived pores and generally increase uptake, but the literature frames this in V/cm, not “current levels.”
- Depth of effect depends on the field distribution in tissue , which is set by electrode geometry, spacing, contact, and local conductivity , plus pulse amplitude. Modeling and experimental work show that as applied voltage increases, a larger area of viable epidermis/dermis exceeds the poration threshold (~400–1200 V/cm) —but this is about expanding the region above threshold , not current per se.
- Non-invasive dermal electroporation increases permeation and transiently disrupts barrier function, supporting greater amount delivered; however, these studies don’t show a simple “current↑ = deeper layer” rule.
- By contrast, in iontophoresis (a different mechanism), flux does scale with current density, but that mainly means more mass transported, not guaranteed deeper deposition.
So will a higher setting (e.g., 5 vs 2–3) push actives “deeper”?
- If that setting increases pulse amplitude (and not merely shows a higher current due to lower skin impedance), you likely get more permeabilization and greater uptake. That may engage a thicker slice of tissue above the poration threshold, which is an indirect route to “deeper reach.” But it’s not a linear depth dial, and it quickly runs into safety limits.
- Vendor marketing sometimes claims fixed depths (e.g., “3–5 mm”), but those figures are not robustly supported by peer-reviewed data and should be treated cautiously.
Practical takeaways
- Don’t chase depth by current alone. If you need more reach, the levers with evidence are: electrode spacing/geometry, good conductive coupling (gels/hydrogels), and carefully increased pulse amplitude/number —while staying within reversible electroporation ranges and manufacturer limits.
- Monitor for barrier disruption and irritation; higher energy increases risk without guaranteeing proportionally deeper delivery.
I am only interested in skin health- longevity. I see others using this device are many decades younger. I have less interest in fillers or cosmetic effects. I think since I didn’t use HRT I need an estriol cream. The rapa topical cream I use is too strong- it’s .1 percent- for tumors - it should be .001 percent.
Now I will add PlinstFast a biostimulator via DEP. Since I am on carac for AKs it will a while before I can add PlinstFast.
It’s what they said on the webinar I linked to. Dialing it up higher just means you’ll be done quicker. Depth can’t be properly controlled although all things equal I understand that more physical pressure results in greater depth of penetration.
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I recommend topical tretinoin as high % as you can tolerate, estriol sure but perhaps you may benefit from it as hormone replacement therapy which can have downstream benefits for skin but even at the skincare strength formulation it can help. That being said, depending on your age and skin condition, you probably won’t notice the kind of improvement you really want. You probably want soft tissue rejuvenation / tightening, with the skin merely being its outermost draping. So for changing anything below skin deep level I think energy based devices are non negotiable. If you have the $$ Fotona 4D can be a great treatment and non surgical alternative to a facelift (for mild to moderate sagging). For the DIY route I think the ultraformer is the best in class. With the DEP you can add some volume and tightening via Sculptra and hyperdilute Radiesse but both need the underlying structure to have good mechanical tension, basically already be more or less tight. The other products, skin boosters etc. they’re for superficial issues, glow, hyperpigmentation, surface irregularities etc.
If this is the product you’re looking into, you’ll probably be happy with the glow and overall effect on the skin, but it won’t change structural issues:
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Thanks so much for the info! I had a face lift and brow lift and lipo under chin at 62 when i still had some collagen. Best time ti have one. No hollowing
In 2006 when I had it fillers were just coming into use and in my city were not mainstream. That facelift has lasted believe it or not and skin is good. I’m not skinny or and still have good amt of fat in the face. I wish I had taken HRT after menopause for a lot of reasons. My rapa alternative medical Dr. wants me definitely to go on it but my GYN says it’s not advisable to start late 70’s. I would not get another face lift, when old you start to look too pulled back and it’s obvious. My Dr gave me a referral to a very attractive cosmetic dermatologist in TX but she no longer does TeleMed for meds. If I had an enlightened practitioner, (she is taking rapa and HRT) in my city I would see her for a consult. The community that inject fillers in my city look sketchy and right out of cosmetic training school even if they work for a plastic surgeon.
I’m in no way suggesting you should get a facelift, but if your concern is the pulled obvious look, I only wanted to share that with modern techniques (deep plane), with a good surgeon, pulled/wind blown is a thing of the past.
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Key is finding a top facial surgeon. Good luck and 15k poorer. Approaching 80 it’s smart to focus on healthy skin instead. Besides how much time do I have left? Maybe 15 if I’m lucky. What’s up after 90?? I have that stupid AMD too which is a real bummer.
Taking slow regenerative care - with things like rapamyacin, estriol, NCFT 135 HA , exsomes, Plinst Fast, and antioxidants — is the right road for me. It is suppose to strengthen the skin itself instead of rearranging it. You’re building underlying health, not chasing youth which is impossible. Yes a deep plane facelift is better than the one got but after already having one its best not to try again and focus on staying healthy at least from 80 to 90. My mother had a few face lifts and looked great at 91 and when she passed in the hospital all the nurses who filed by remarked by saying how young she looked! Truth of the matter was that her 80’s were filled with pain and the loss of her former health and lifestyle.
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I 10000% don’t think you should get one. I think there is no right or wrong, but I think once in a lifetime is plenty… unless of course you are a Kardashian and it’s like getting a new winter coat! 
I was only letting you know they do them differently now incase you were not aware. You already had one and not that long ago, so I imagine you look much younger than your years as it is.
I think your plan is ideal!
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Have you ever tried this yourself? I’m thinking of having a few sessions on my upper eyelids, around my eyes, and neck. Maybe I could add the whole face and lips too, as I’d get a serious discount. However, I don’t know anyone who has done it.
I was also wondering how long these non-surgical methods delay facial ageing and muscle and SMAS sagging. I have great genetic potential; both my parents’ faces age well without major volume loss or muscle sagging. I just have upper eyelid ptosis from birth, and my lateral brows are quite low since my twenties. I’m 50, and most people who meet me and don’t know how old I am would say I look mid-to-late thirties. But over the past two years, I’ve noticed some nasolabial folding, volume loss in my midcheek and pyriform fossa, and skin laxity in my lateral neck skin (apparent when I turn my head left or right). I don’t want to do fillers and have been looking into surgical facelifts that have advanced tremendously, especially if you don’t have extra skin that needs removal. Most of the tissue can be fixed through small openings in your hairline, and there’s no visible scarring. I don’t really need a facelift anytime soon, but I’ve read that doing one and fixing the SMAS to the periosteum basically delays facial ageing and even decades later, you still look better than before facelifts (if done properly, not just skin excision). So, I’m a bit lost when it comes to using non-surgical methods, as they seem to become just maintaining skin quality.
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@scta123 have never had the Fotona done but it’s the only laser that I know of that thanks to its properties does more than skin deep stimulation. It takes multiple sessions though so my only advice is to commit to a series of at least 4, however many areas you can afford to target (it’s also much cheaper in Europe, especially Eastern Europe, if you can plan it around a vacation trip, the difference probably more than covers the plane ticket).
From the issues you describe, I wouldn’t rush into a facelift. Fillers almost always look nasty too. I’d say a combination of Sculptra delivered via DEP and advanced hifu might give you the results you’re looking for.
I am younger than you, at 39, but have had 5 kids and from my pregnancies my weight has fluctuated from 110 lb to… I’m sorry to say, 170 lb at times. And not just once but 5 times (though the swings haven’t always been so wild). You may well imagine that can do a number on the skin and soft tissues yet I look pretty decent at the moment, without a double chin or jowls or any noticeable droopiness. I attribute the upkeep to my energy based devices over the years and among them the ultraformer has been by far the best. It makes these points and / or lines of coagulation in your SMAS that basically tighten that layer there from thermal coagulation so the volume instantly shrinks. Then over time more collagen and elastin is produced and deposited there as wound repair for tightening. Adding PLLA and nanohydroxyapatite via DEP then rounds things out. I would use a combo of these DEP treatments every 4-8 weeks and ultraformer every 3-6 months (more often if you have a fuller face, maybe less often if your face is skinny) for a year or two, and see how you look on the other side, before considering anything more drastic.
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Because you mentioned surgery and your ptosis and knowing who the top surgeons are is often a challenge, I’m just here to share a name.
Guy Massry is a very well known eye guy. He has an excellent instagram that is educational. I actually went to get Botox from him last month because I wanted to meet him.
He doesn’t do facelifts, but if you wanted to learn more about eye surgery, he’s a great person to follow.
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I know him; he did eyelid surgery on my best friend. It was costly, but it looks really good. It didn’t change his eye shape or appearance whatsoever. He also had hooded eyelids, and he kept it that way. However, my husband, who is a plastic reconstructive surgeon, spotted it from miles away and bluntly asked who did his eyes, saying they look good but done. He mentioned that getting eyes done is always risky and can change your appearance, so I am just trying to maintain my ptosis or hooding, not to let it progress any further. But if I will need to do something, he is the guy!
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Same here! I don’t actually want to get one, but I went down a total facelift rabbit hole recently. Since I’m in Europe, I was surprised to see that even top surgeons doing state-of-the-art facelifts charge around €15k.
My husband’s a plastic/reconstructive surgeon, and he’s always told me that if I ever plan on getting a facelift down the line, I should stay away from energy devices or biostimulators like Sculptra or Radiesse. Apparently they cause a type of scarring that makes it harder to get the best results later on.
Another thing that caught my attention is that facelifts can actually be kind of preventative and getting one younger can help maintain facial structure and slow down visible aging (aside from bone loss, of course).
And honestly, the most practical reason is just that I don’t want a big, drastic change. I just want to keep what I have for as long as possible 
.
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I’m no surgeon and wouldn’t debate this with your husband but the point re: scar tissue is hotly debated by plastic surgeons themselves. Many surgeons are completely fine with it, and by my understanding, if you go for a deep plane face lift, the surgeon would be working too deep for any of those issues to be a concern.
Probably true.