Sadly, any discussion of covid vaccines become an evidence free zone. Nobody is convincing anyone, which is why I think leaving it up to people’s individual decision is the right move instead of mandates. Let Darwin sort out the truth.
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But we don’t want Darwin to sort out the truth. We’re all here to help each other avoid death.
However on this issue, we need more data. I’m leaning towards getting the shot as I am at high risk for the disease every year.
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When is the best time to get the shot?
Late September through October, experts said. That gives the shot time to take effect before a winter wave is expected.
The exception is if you had Covid recently. For maximum efficacy, wait three months after a Covid infection before getting a vaccine.
It is a good idea to get your flu shot at the same time, and your R.S.V. shot if you’re in a vulnerable population, said Dr. Megan Ranney, an emergency physician and the dean of the Yale School of Public Health.
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I agree with you in principle, and that’s the purpose of this site, to exchange useful information. However, in some areas, reasoned arguments fail - I wish it weren’t so, but after many fruitless attempts at trying to resolve the issues rationally, I have been forced to give up. You reach a point where any further engagement wastes time without resolution.
Also, while we can always benefit from more data - that’s just science - I believe we already have enough data to make a very grounded decision. I welcome more data, but unless something radically surprising upends my understanding of the evidence, I am completely comfortable with my decision. YMMV, and I’m open to a good contrary argument.
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The three vaccines available are:
Nuvaxovid – Novavax
Spikevax – Moderna
Comirnaty – Pfizer
First one targets JN.1, the other two LP.8.1.
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I researched Moderna vs Pfizer in another thread. I’m linking it here. My comment above was just to provide some data.
Moderna has developed mNEXSPIKE, a next-generation COVID-19 vaccine that uses only one-fifth the dose of their current Spikevax vaccine . This lower dose is possible due to a more targeted design that creates a focused immune response.
Not sure when this is relevant, but there seem to be four options in the US:
https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/what-difference-between-spikevax-mnexspike-3580787/
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What about Novavax that is a more traditional vaccine technology
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I’ve already survived it twice while being unvaccinated so even if there wasn’t any political baggage I wouldn’t benefit much from it. But there IS political baggage. It was a hysteria where our rights were taken away in many countries for refusing bodily violation. People who self identify as championing rationalism were leading this discrimination. I cannot forgive them.
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Evidence for this? Everything I have read said the opposite, though I haven’t updated my knowledge for a while. End of the day, whatever dose of viral mRNA/protein you get from vaccines, you get orders of magnitude more from being infected. Plus goodness knows what damage the virus and your immune response does to the lungs, endothelial cells, heart etc.
Apparently this doesn’t matter. I am taking a totally non-political opinion on this, and as my personal anecdote I think I had Covid at some point and it didn’t noticeably affect me in any way. However, I have spoken to some researcher-clinicians (who I trust and I don’t think they are ideologues) and they say you that your previous experiences with Covid don’t really predict much about your future experiences. A bit like how future performance of a stock can’t be judged based on past performance. They have talked about cases where people have been absolutely fine and then get slammed with long-lasting fatigue after a mild infection.
So for me personally now I’m not too worried about hospitalisation or death, but I would like to avoid any sort of long-term BS that can come from the virus. Unfortunately I have no idea whether the vaccines actually prevent that.
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Good thinking, but it would take too long to sort out things Darwinian way. We don’t have time to wait.
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Is Novavax available everywhere?
Across evolutionary history, life on Earth has been shaped by violence in many forms—predation, conflict, catastrophe, mass murdering, etc. Today is not different and most likely will become worse (totalitarian regimes come to mind).
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Theoretically it is, but not in practice because there are fewer places who will offer any covid vax this year.
Unfortunately, you just need to call around to the different providers to see what they offer. It’s not available in our town because this year only Safeway offers covid vaccines here.
Beth, I’m curious about the connection between a baby aspirin and the Covid vax. Due to an artificial aortic valve (2 Tavr’s), I have been told to take a baby aspirin every day.
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I’m glad you asked because I found a completely different answer when I checked with Open Evidence!
I had once heard that taking this prior to the vax could impact your immune response. When it dawned on me, I googled the day after my vax and saw something similar.
But, fortunately, it appears that it was indeed fine!!! Here is a paste from OE
Current evidence indicates that aspirin use does not reduce the immune response to vaccination:
- Low‑dose aspirin: A pooled analysis from four randomized trials in older adults receiving the 2009 monovalent H1N1 influenza vaccine showed no significant difference in antibody titers between aspirin users and non‑users 1 I. This provides reassurance that aspirin does not blunt vaccine effectiveness.
- Mechanistic data: While NSAIDs can theoretically inhibit antibody production via prostaglandin suppression, clinical data with aspirin specifically have not demonstrated a clinically relevant reduction in humoral immune response 1.
- Other antipyretics: By contrast, acetaminophen (paracetamol) has been associated with lower neutralizing antibody activity in rheumatoid arthritis patients after SARS‑CoV‑2 vaccination 2 II, suggesting the effect may be drug‑specific and not a class effect.
- Older immunology studies: Early animal and in vitro work suggested aspirin could have mild immunosuppressive effects 3, but these findings have not translated into clinically significant impairment of vaccine responses in humans.
Conclusion
Aspirin does not reduce vaccine‑induced humoral immune responses. For patients taking low‑dose aspirin (e.g., for cardiovascular prevention), there is no need to discontinue therapy around COVID‑19 or other vaccinations, as current evidence shows no impact on immunogenicity.
Thank you, Beth! I should probably get both vaccines; just need to find a good date.
Based on analyses of commercial health insurance claims data from inpatient and outpatient settings, the estimated unadjusted incidence of myocarditis and/or pericarditis during the period 1 through 7 days following administration of the 2023-2024 Formula of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines was approximately 8 cases per million doses in individuals 6 months through 64 years of age and approximately 27 cases per million doses in males 12 through 24 years of age.
It’s interesting that the risk for vaccine-related myocarditis which is not the same as infection-related is 1 in 125,000 for every new dose. That’s from June 24th this year:
Because the vaccine reduces risk of infection and subsequent hospitalization, there should be a net benefit for myocarditis risk overall with both vaccine and infection risk combined, if we use math.
That’s not including reducing risk of other documented harms from the infection itself.
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I won’t argue with you stated data. You can cherry pick results. I.e. repeated doses of Moderna in a young man has 5 times the myocarditis as an infection.
The main problem is that most of these studies are from the early days of Covid. What is the current 2025 benefit of a booster vaccine in people who have been vaccinated and infected multiple times? What is the risk of the current altered vaccine which I don’t think has been studied and I believe is still under EUA?
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I have read some critiques of the paper, including comments on PubPeer, and I now think it’s pretty flawed, and very misleadingly written. They take a lot of logic leaps based on flimsy assumptions. There is a good “takedown” here: Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is definitely coming for your vaccines, part 3: Antivax rhetoric and incompetence at ACIP | Science-Based Medicine The short version is that the assay is flawed. The long version is that they obfuscated data, the “10ng” rule is not applicable in this type of assay, they analysed expired vials (thus degradation) etc etc.
Just FYI, Australian data (https://www.tga.gov.au/news/covid-19-vaccine-safety-reports/covid-19-vaccine-safety-report-12-01-23) reports myocarditis and pericarditis from Novavax also. Actually the rate seems higher than Moderna or Pfizer, but the number of people receiving Novavax is a lot less, so the data may be less reliable.
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