Maybe I should change it to the old “check and verify” Question everything is certainly what the reviewers at publications like Nature do if you are trying to get an article or study published.
I do not regard MDs in the same way as I regarded my colleagues. I have had no experience working with people in the medical profession or biological sciences.
The people I worked with were engineers, physicists, technologists, geologists, mathematicians, etc.
I was on the hiring committee for my department which was mainly electrical engineers, programmers, technologists, and one Ph.D. mathematician. What I recognized early in my career was that people who were “geeks” (no disrespect. Geek, is a complimentary term to me.) made the best hires and were the most productive.
What I mean by that as an example is someone who was obsessed with electronics and building electronic projects as a hobby when they were in grade school as opposed to someone who decided after their sophomore year in college to think " Hey I think I will change my major to engineering, history majors don’t make any money"
Another case in point was my programmer with a BA in programming languages who loved mathematics and solved maths problems and puzzles as a hobby, He was much better at solving the math problems our projects required than our Ph.D. who mostly just occupied office space and added his name to our white paper proposals.
Just a general reminder to everyone here to be considerate of the issue that we know little about the combined effects of different longevity supplements and drugs…
While I’m with Ian Mestres on this topic generally and think this will likely be successful, we also need to be careful until more data comes out. I hope that Matt Kaeberlein and his new company will share to the public the data they get on combined interventions (when it does not conflict with his corporate goals and requirements, obviously)
Very often the problem with polypharmacy in the elderly is a function of dosing. As medical director of a very large facility for the elderly over 10 years, I got good results just cutting back on the doses, often by 50%. In that way you preserve efficacy and reduce side effects.
The elderly usually only require a fraction of the ordinary dose.
I’m not an expert in anyway regarding spermidine. I’m currently taking some powdered high-spermidine wheat germ I got from Germany.
In the future when I need to buy spermidine - I will likely move over to spermidine trihydrochloride. This is the manufactured / synthetic version of spermidine and much less expensive than the wheat germ or other natural products that are high in spermidine.
Spermidine generally has much less research behind it than something like rapamycin that has shown positive longevity benefits in dozens of studies over the past two decades, so I’m less sure of the benefits of spermidine, and I don’t want to spend a ton of money on it because its of unproven value in longevity.
I contacted a leading researcher in the spermidine field (who is in Europe, and not affiliated with any company, only a university that does spermidine research) and he said (when I asked him how the spermidine trihydrochloride compares to the wheat germ / natural spermidine):
His reply was:
I’m not aware of direct comparisons, but personally I suspect no differences in bioavailability or molecular effects if the doses are matched. Usually, spermidine trihydrochloride is used in model organisms, also in mice and rats. The wheat germ extract … is usually used in clinical trials. Japanese groups sometimes use other formulations, but also no lab-grade spermidine. Please note that I do not have any financial interests in any of those products and that I am not involved in any spermidine-related business.
So - the experts say that there “should” be no differences in terms of bioavialablity (that is, biological benefits) of the manufactured spermidine (spermidine trihydrochloride) vs. the natural spermidine products.
So - my approach next will be to purchase spermidine trihydrochloride from the most reputable vendor I can find. I have not done any research on that yet.
Nice! If you can only pick 3 of the above ( excluding diet, sleep and exercise) what would be your top 3? What is determining you Rapa dose. What labs are you checking?
Ha, that’s an interesting interpretation of Matt’s comments!
There’s some suggestion that NAD boosters might have an impact on cancer progression. Also, if you look at the raw data here you’ll notice that if anything, NR reduced lifespan.
It’s not an interpretation. He said it verbatim in the interview with Dr. Attia about the sirtuin pathway possibly being a key modulator of healthspan and aging. Of course the data isn’t there yet.
‘There’s no data that has been reproducible and convinces me that NAD precursors are slowing ageing’
Pretty conclusive.
Btw, you interpreted smoke to mean ‘suggestive evidence’ whilst I interpreted it to mean ‘hyperbole’… And, based on his comments in the above clip and elsewhere I think it’s clear who is ‘right’.
With pleasure! We are all here to share and learn from each other.
I actually do feel an energy boost after I take it in the morning. It’s similar to caffeine for me. Of course I don’t know if it’s placebo effect, but I I’d take it anyway.
It almost certainly doesn’t have the effect of rapamycin on lifespan, but in my humble opinion the jury is still out on healthspan. So I choose to take it.
Regarding the rapamycin dose: I don’t remember where I read 0.1 mg per Kg. Generally speaking I like to experiment and also try higher doses. There are people taking 15 mg per week. For now I feel great with the 11 mg. I will pause it for a month, probably in August and after that every 3-4 months.
I guess a better way to ask about NMN is would you take it even if you felt enough data came back that its longevity potential was not very good - or that other options would be better. If you would still take it, then it just becomes a Healthspan options instead of a longevity option and why I posted this topic:) In reverse, if Rapa ultimately did not show longevity in humans, I would still take it for the Healthspan benefits - less joint soreness and better recovery from work outs.
